334. Leadership Begins Before You Enter the Room with Mick Spiers

You can have the right strategy and still walk into a room and lose it with one comment. You can mean well and still “fill the space” so completely that your team stops thinking out loud. That gap between intention and impact is where most leadership pain lives and it’s usually not a skill issue, it’s an autopilot issue.

We pull together four big ideas from recent conversations with Susan Drumm, Brad Semmens, Dre Baldwin, and Robert Kennedy III, and we land on one shared thread: intentionality. Susan helps us notice the leader’s playlist, the thoughts and emotional loops shaping our state before we speak. Brad gives us clean language for choosing our stance in the moment: step in, step back, step up, step down, or lead from center. Dre pushes the uncomfortable truth that motivation is unreliable and that standards are built on the “third day,” when the shine wears off and discipline has to carry the work. Robert shows how storytelling turns raw moments into meaning, using a simple tool: moment, meaning, message.

We make it practical with a 60-second reset you can use before any meeting, feedback conversation, or hard talk: check your state, choose your stance, live the standard, and tell or challenge the story. Small moves repeated consistently become leadership identity, and leadership identity becomes culture.

If you want more intentional leadership, better team communication, and a culture people can trust, listen now, share it with someone you lead, and subscribe so you don’t miss what’s next. What’s the one lever you need most right now: state, stance, standards, or story?

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:01

Have you ever walked into a meeting already carrying the emotional residue of something that happened earlier in the day? Have you ever reacted to someone's comment only to realize later that your reaction was bigger than the moment called for? Have you ever stepped in when your team needed space, or stepped back when they needed direction. Have you ever started something with energy and ambition, but then struggled to keep going when the excitement wore off? And have you ever had something important to say, but found that your message just didn't land? If any of those questions resonate with you, then this episode is for you. Today we're bringing together the threads from four remarkable conversations on the Leadership Project this month. Hey everyone, and welcome back to The Leadership Project in Episode 334. Today is a solo cast where we bring together the key learnings that we have taken away from our amazing guests during this month, we bring together Susan Drum, Brad Simmons, Dre Baldwin, and Robert Kennedy III, and we pull together a synthesis of those learnings so that we can create actionable insights that we can put into our own leadership. Susan Drumm helped us explore the leader's playlist, the thoughts, emotions, beliefs, and patterns that keep playing in the background of our mind. Brad Semmens helped us explore the five stances of leadership, when to step up, when to step down, when to step in, when to step back, and how to lead from our center. Dre Baldwin challenged us to raise our standards through disciplined confidence, mental toughness, and personal initiative. and Robert Kennedy III helped us see the power of story, how to take a moment, extract the meaning, and share a message that connects, teaches, and moves people into action. At first glance, these may seem like four separate topics: music and neuroscience, leadership stance, high performance, and storytelling, but the more I sat with these conversations, the more I saw one powerful thread running through all of them, and that thread is intentionality. More specifically, the journey from autopilot to intention, because so much of our leadership happens before we speak, before we make the decision, before we give the feedback, before we enter the meeting, before we send that email, before we respond to the person in front of us. Leadership begins with what is already happening inside us, the state we are in, the stance we choose, the standards we live by, and the stories we carry. And here is the challenging part: if we do not become conscious of those things, they will lead on our behalf. We will be on autopilot, and we won't be intentional. Our unexamined state becomes the energy in the room. Our default stance becomes the power dynamic. Our tolerated standards become the culture, and our repeated stories become the limits of what people believe is possible. That is why this month's theme matters so much. Leadership is not just about what we do; it's about becoming conscious of what is driving what we do. It is about creating a pause between stimulus and response. It is about noticing what is running on autopilot, naming it clearly, and choosing a more intentional response that serves the people that we lead. Susan's work is fascinating because it begins with something many leaders may not immediately connect to leadership. Music, but as the conversation unfolded, it became clear that this was not simply a conversation about songs. It was a conversation about state, the state we are in when we lead. Susan introduced us to the idea of the leaders playlist, and that playlist can be literal. Music can shift our mood, our energy, our emotional state. It can bring us into courage, calm, focus, gratitude, or possibility. But the deeper metaphor is even more powerful. We all have an internal playlist, a set of repeated thoughts, stories, assumptions, and emotional loops that play in the background. And before anyone thinks that if you if you are telling yourself stories in your head, we all do it. You're not crazy. You know, we all think that oh, people that talk to themselves are crazy. We all do it every day, every moment of every day. We've got this internal playlist in the background; these thoughts and stories and assumptions that keep on playing on repeat. For one person, the playlist might be "I'm not good enough." For another, it might be "I'm going to be found out." For another, they don't respect me. Or it could be, I always have to prove myself. Or if I don't control this, it will fall apart. Or no one listens to me. All of these stories. Think of the one for yourself. There's always something that you're saying in your head about yourself, the story that you tell yourself about yourself, and it sets the tone for how you're going to show up. And the problem is not that these thoughts appear. We're human, it's normal. Thoughts appear, emotions appear, patterns appear. The problem is when we do not notice them, because when we do not notice the playlist, the playlist starts choosing the song. It chooses our tone. It chooses our posture. It chooses our reactions. It chooses whether we listen or defend. It chooses whether we ask a curious question or make an assumption. It chooses whether we enter the room open, guarded, resentful, anxious, or grounded, and this is where some of our broader work in the leadership project body of work becomes really important. We've been spending a lot of time exploring human behavior, not as a simple matter of right and wrong, but as something shaped by biology, history, environment, identity, emotion, and context. Psychologist Jonathan Haidt's work reminds us that we often feel first and rationalize second. The emotional mind moves quickly. The rational mind often arrives later with a very convincing explanation for what we already felt. It's a narrative that we construct afterwards that supports the emotion that we already had. Robert Sapolsky's work reminds us to be humble about human behavior. What someone does in a moment is not only about that moment, it has been shaped by what happened seconds before, minutes before, years before, and sometimes by patterns that go back much further than the person is consciously aware of. Now that does not remove responsibility, but it should increase our humility. It should make us less quick to judge and more committed to creating the conditions for better responses, and as leaders, that starts with ourselves. When I am triggered, what is actually happening inside me? Is this response about the moment in front of me, or is this moment touching an older story? Is my body protecting me from a threat that may not actually be present? Is my ego trying to defend an identity about who I think I am? Is my inner critic driving the conversation? Is my desire to be right getting in the way of my desire to understand. This is not soft work. This is serious leadership work, because the leader's inner world becomes the team's outer experience. If I walk into the room anxious, defensive, and needing to prove myself, the team will feel that. If I walk into the room resentful, impatient, and closed, the team will feel that too. And if I walk into the room grounded, curious, and present, then the team are going to feel that. Susan's message is not that we should suppress emotion. In fact, that was one of the most important distinctions in the conversation. Anger can carry information. Sadness can carry information. Frustration, resentment-they all carry information. Anger might be telling us that about. Has been crossed. Sadness might be telling us that something mattered. Frustration might be telling us that a value is being violated. Resentment might be telling us that something needs to be spoken, renegotiated, or released. The issue is not whether we feel these things. The issue is whether we become stuck in them. So the first movement from autopilot to intention is to notice the playlist. What is playing in me right now, and is it serving the moment? And that brings us to Brad Simmons and the leader's stance. If Susan helped us notice the internal state we bring into leadership, Brad helps us notice the relational position we take once we are with others. His five stances of leadership are so useful because they give language to something that is happening all the time. We are always taking a stance. Sometimes we step up. Sometimes we step down. Sometimes we step in. Sometimes we step back. And sometimes, when we are most grounded, we lead from our center. The important thing is that no single stance is always right. There are moments where a leader must step in. It's a crisis. There might be ambiguity. There might be risk. People need clarity. The leader needs to act. There are moments where a leader must step back. The team needs space to think, to grow, to wrestle with the problem and build their own confidence. There are moments where a leader must step up. They need to take a broader view, connect the work to strategy, speak to the purpose, the vision, the direction. There are moments where a leader must step down. They need to listen with humility. Get closer to the work. Learn from the people with lived experience, and stop pretending they have all the answers, because often the best answers come from the shop floor, where it's closest to the action. And there are moments where a leader needs to lead from their center, be grounded, be present, be integrated, not inflated by power, not diminished by insecurity, not reactive, not performative, Just clear, calm, and committed to what the moment needs. What I loved about Brad's work is that it challenged the idea that leadership is about finding your style and applying it everywhere. That is too simplistic, because if all we have is one style, we become like a hammer. And when all we have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. The decisive leader overuses decisiveness and becomes domineering. The supportive leader overuses support and avoids challenge. The visionary leader overuses the big picture and disconnects from operational reality. The humble leader overuses humility and avoids using the authority the moment requires. The analytical leader overuses analysis and slows the team down. The charismatic leader overuses charisma and crowds out other voices, and this is another one of the big recurring insights from our research into the body of work. Many leadership problems are not caused by weaknesses; they are caused by strengths overused, misapplied, or left unexamined, a strength becomes a constraint when it's used without awareness. That is why Brad's calendar reflection is so powerful. Before you walk into a meeting, ask, "How do I need sharp here? Not what is my agenda. Not what do I want to say, not how do I prove I have the answer, but what does this moment require for me?" Does this team need space or direction? Do they need challenge or support? Do they need clarity or curiosity. Do they need me to speak or listen? Do they need me to hold the space or fill the space? That phrase, holding the space versus filling the space, is such an important. Leadership distinction. Many leaders fill space because silence feels uncomfortable. We fill the space with answers, with advice, with stories, with instructions, with our own intelligence. But if we are always filling the space, there may be no room left for others to contribute, no room for the quieter voice, the emerging idea, the dissent, the learning, the ownership. This connects deeply with theory U and the work of Otto Sharma, and our ongoing research around generative listening. Level one listening is listening from habit. Listens to confirm what we already believe. It listens just long enough to reply. But deeper listening requires an open mind, an open heart, and an open will. It requires us to suspend the need to be right. It requires us to become genuinely curious. It requires us to allow something new to emerge that we may not have seen before. That is not passive. It is active leadership, creating the conditions for the emerging future to reveal itself, and that is only possible when the leader is conscious of their stance and holds space for the ideas to emerge. Then came Dre Baldwin and the leader's standards, and Dre brought a different energy. Susan and Brad helped us become more conscious. Dre challenged us to execute. His message was direct, practical, and refreshingly unsentimental. Motivation is useful, but it is unreliable. It comes and goes. If we only show up when we feel motivated, we are not leading. We are negotiating with our feelings. Dre's framework of discipline, confidence, mental toughness, and personal initiative gives us a performance operating system. Discipline is doing the work whether we feel like it or not. Confidence is not fake bravado. It is what remains when we remove the interference, the doubt, anxiety, overthinking, and concern about what other people think. Mental toughness is the security system that protects our discipline and confidence when things are not going well. And personal initiative is the refusal to wait to be discovered, to be rescued, to be invited, or to be given permission. The concept that really stayed with me was the third day. The first day is exciting. We've made the decision. We've announced the goal. We've bought the shoes. We've joined the gym. We've launched the project. We've started the new habit, or we've felt that surge of possibility. The second day still carries some of that novelty, but the third day is different, and it's not literally the third day. It's when that initial excitement has worn off. The third day is when the shine has worn off that new and exciting adventure when the work feels harder than expected, when excuses become available, when no one is clapping anymore, when we find out whether this is a wish or a standard. I felt this personally in my running journey. The vision of running a marathon is exciting. The race day image is exciting. The finish line is exciting, but the marathon is built is not built on race day. It's not built on race day. It's built on the third day. It is built in the early morning run when the weather is ordinary, when the body feels heavy, when the watch says one thing and the ego wants another. When the trading plan says easy and the discipline is to keep it easy, an easy run is supposed to be easy. And when you practice energy management, metabolic economy, and earning the right to release the break. Leadership is the same. Leadership is not built in the moments of applause. It is built in the repeated behaviors no one notices. The preparation before the meeting. The follow-up after the conversation, the courage to close the loop, the discipline to listen instead of react, the humility to ask the extra question, the consistency to reinforce the standard, the willingness to have the conversation you would rather avoid. This is where a lot of culture is formed. In those micro moments, culture is not only shaped by what we say matters. It is shaped by what we repeatedly tolerate. What do we allow to become normal? What do we walk past? What do we reinforce? What do we celebrate? What do we ignore? What do we correct? Where do we allow a gap between intention and experience? One of the recurring lessons in our research and the body of work is that people are always making meaning sense making. If leaders do not close the loop, people create their own story; they fill the void. If leaders avoid the conversation, people interrupt the silence. If leaders say something is valued but never show it, people believe the behavior, not the slogan. If leaders declare a culture but behave inconsistently, people trust the lived experience, not the poster on the wall. I often come back to this phrase: in a vacuum of information, people draw their own conclusions. That is not because people are difficult, it is because human beings are meaning-making creatures. We are trying to make sense of our world, so leadership standards matter deeply. Not as perfectionism, not as control, not as ego, but as care. Standards are how we make our values visible. A standard says this is what we believe is important enough to practice consistently. And Dre's challenge is that we cannot outsource that. We cannot wait until we feel like it. We cannot wait until the conditions are perfect. We cannot wait until someone else gives permission. The third day will come, and on that day, leadership asks, "Who have you decided to become?" And finally, that takes us to Robert Kennedy III, the leader's story. Robert brought us into the world of storytelling, but again, the deeper lesson was not about performance, was not about theatrics, was not about becoming more entertaining. It was about meaning. Robert's framework of moment, meaning, message is beautifully simple. What was the moment? What meaning did you take from it? What message could help someone else? That framework connects so deeply of how we are building the leadership project body of work, because so much of this work is about noticing, noticing a moment, naming the pattern, extracting the meaning, turning it into something useful, then applying it in real leadership situations. Notice, name, translate, apply. That might be one of the most important disciplines of leadership, because leadership is not just about having experiences. Everyone has experiences. Leadership is about learning from those experiences and helping others learn from them too. A conversation becomes a story. A mistake becomes a lesson. A conflict becomes a pattern. A moment of discomfort becomes an insight. A parenting moment becomes a leadership metaphor. A run becomes a reflection on energy management. A feedback conversation becomes a lesson in courage and care. That is why storytelling matters so much, because facts alone rarely move people. Data can inform, analysis can clarify, logic can structure, but story helps people care. Story connects the head and the heart. And again, here Jonathan Haidt's work is useful. If people are not moved emotionally, the rational argument often does not land at all. We may think we are. Persuading with facts, but people are also listening for meaning, for identity, for belonging, fairness, threat, safety, purpose. They're trying to make sense of what's going on, not just the facts. So when a leader communicates, the question is not only did I explain it. The better question

is: 25:23

Did I help people make sense of it? Did I help them understand why it matters? Did I connect it to something they care about? Did I show where they fit in? Did I honor what? they may be afraid of losing. Did I make the future feel possible? Did I tell the truth in a way that built trust rather than spin? That is another one of our themes that's coming from our research. Leadership is helping people make sense of their world. That is true in change, in feedback, in culture, strategy, conflict, uncertainty. People do not only want instructions, they want meaning. They want to understand why are we doing this? Why now? What will change? What might be lost? What will be protected? Where do I belong in this? How do I contribute? Does my work matter? And this is where storytelling becomes an act of leadership service, not manipulation, not performance, not making ourselves the hero. Service. The purpose of a leadership story is to help the listener see something they cannot see before. It may help them feel less alone. It may help them understand a principle. It may help them take the next step, to trust the direction, to find courage. It may help them to make meaning from uncertainty. Robert's work also challenges another limiting belief that many of us say this. I'm not a storyteller. How many leaders carry that story? I'm not a communicator. I'm not charismatic. I'm not inspiring. I'm not good with words. I don't have anything interesting to say. But Robert reminds us that storytelling is not reserved for a special few; it is a craft, and the raw material is already in your life. The meeting that didn't go well, we all have them. The customer who taught you something, the team member who surprised you one day, the mistake you still remember, the moment someone believed in you, the hard lesson, the quiet realization, the conversation with your child on the way to school, the moment you chose courage over comfort-these are all stories, and you already have them. The leadership discipline is to notice them, reflect on them, and share them in service of others. So when we bring these four conversations together, here is what I see as the monthly thread. Susan teaches us to notice our state. Brad teaches us to choose our stance. Dre teaches us to raise our standards, and Robert teaches us to shape and share our story. State, stance, standards, story, and all four invite us to move from autopilot to intention. The autopilot leader is not necessarily a bad leader. That is important. Autopilot is human. Sometimes we all have patterns. We all have triggers. We all have default behaviors. We all have inherited stories, strengths we overuse. We all have habits we fall back on under pressure. That's okay. The question is not whether we have autopilot. The question is whether we are willing to wake up to it. What is my default emotional playlist? What is my default leadership stance? What standard am I living by when no one is watching? What story am I telling myself, my team, and my people around me? And the deeper question: Is it serving? Is this state serving the room? Is this stance serving the team? Is this standard serving the culture? Is this story? Serving the future we are trying to create-that word "serving" matters, and it's at the heart of intentionality. Because leadership is not self-expression without consequence. Leadership is not. This is just who I am. There's a lot of emphasis on authenticity, which is important, but it's not enough. I hear that phrase a lot. People just say, "Well, that's just how I communicate. That's just my style. That's how I lead. That's just how I am. But if how I am is consistently creating fear, confusion, silence, exclusion, or disconnection, then that is not authenticity. That is avoidance, dressed up as an identity. Authenticity is not the position to be unfiltered. Authenticity is the courage to be congruent with our values while taking responsibility for our impact. Authenticity is not a license to be a jerk. That is the bridge between self-awareness and leadership. We notice what is true inside us. We do not deny it. We do not suppress it. But we also do not weaponize it. We do not outsource its consequence to others, and we ask, "How do I lead from this awareness in a way that serves?" So let's make this practical, because if this stays as a nice idea, it's not leadership; it's entertainment. You just walk away feeling like, oh, that was a nice conversation, nice podcast. So here is a simple practice you can use before your next important interaction. Might be a team meeting, one-on-one feedback conversation, a presentation, decision making, a forum, a a difficult conversation, or even a conversation at home. Take 60 seconds before you enter, and ask four questions. First, what is my state? What playlist is playing with me right now? Am I calm, defensive, rushed, resentful, curious, anxious, grounded, tired, energized, and if this state walked into the room before I did, what impact would it have? Second, what stance does this moment require? Do I need to step in or step back? Step up or step down, hold the space or fill the space, challenge or support, direct or listen, lead from the front or create room for others. Third, what standard needs to be lived here? What value needs to become visible? Is it honesty, care, clarity, accountability, inclusion, courage, follow through, curiosity, respect, and what behavior would make that value real in this moment? Fourth, what story needs to be told or challenged. Is there a story I am telling myself that may not be true? Is there a story the team may be telling because I have left a vacuum? Is there a moment, meaning, and message that could help people understand why this matters? Those four questions can change a meeting. They change a conversation. They can change a relationship, and if practiced consistently, they change a culture, because culture is not changed by grand declarations. Culture is changed in micro moments. That pause before the reaction, the question instead of the assumption, the follow-up after the meeting, the clarity that closes the vacuum, the courage to name the real issue, the humility to admit uncertainty, the discipline to keep showing up on the third day and role modeling that behavior, the story that helps people see why their work matters. Now, if you're listening to this and thinking, "Well, that sounds like a lot, well, start smaller." Start with a first baby step. Do not try to transform your entire leadership practice overnight. Choose one practice, one conversation, one moment today, before it begins,

and pause and ask this: 34:40

What am I bringing into this room? That's the baby step. Just notice, no judgment, no drama, no self-criticism. Just notice,"What am I bringing into this room?" Then ask, "Is that what this moment needs?" And if not, choose one small adjustment. Take a breath. Slow your pace. Ask one more question. Hold the silence. State the purpose. Clarify the standard. Share a story. Close the loop. Invite the quieter voice. Say things like, "You know, let me think about that. I may have reacted too quickly. Help me understand. That's a very powerful question. Can you help me understand? Here is what matters and why. I don't know yet, but I'll come back to you. These are all small moves, but small moves repeated consistently become leadership identity, and leadership identity becomes culture. So, as we close this month's reflections, I want to leave you

with this: 35:52

leadership is not about perfect control, it is about conscious choice. It is about becoming more aware of the forces that shape our behavior, and then creating enough space to choose a response aligned with our values. Susan Drum reminded us to notice the playlist in our mind. Brad Semmens reminded us to choose the stance intentionally. Dre Baldwin reminded us to live the standard. Robert Kennedy III reminded us to share the story, and together they reminded us that leadership is not something we perform once we are in the room. Leadership begins before we enter the room. It begins with the state we regulate, the stance we choose, the standards we live and the stories we tell. So this week, I invite you to practice moving from autopilot to intention. Notice your playlist, choose your stance, raise your standard, find the story, and then take the next small step, whatever that may be, because the people we need do not need us to be perfect. They need us to be present, to be conscious, and to be courageous enough to examine ourselves, and caring enough to adjust our behavior in service of them. And when we do that, we create the conditions where people feel seen, heard, valued, and that they belong. Thank you for joining us for this Episode of The Leadership Project. If this episode resonated with you, I encourage you to share it with one person who is trying to lead with more intention. You've been listening to the Leadership Project. If today sparked an insight, don't keep it to yourself. Share it with one other person who would benefit from listening to the show. A huge thank you to Gerald Calibo for his tireless work editing every episode, and to my amazing wife Sei, who does all the heavy lifting in the background to make this show possible? None of this happens without them. Around here, we believe leadership is a practice, not a position. That people should feel seen, heard, valued, and that they matter. That the best leaders trade ego for empathy, certainty for curiosity, and control for trust. If that resonates with you, please subscribe on YouTube and on your favorite podcast app. And if you want more, follow me on LinkedIn and explore our archives for conversations that move you from knowing to doing. Until next time, lead with curiosity, courage, and care.