287. Faith-Based Leadership: Creating Meaningful Impact with Tamara Jackson

In this episode of The Leadership Project, host Mick welcomes Tamara Jackson, founder of Beacon Ship and the Beacon Show. They delve into how belief, resilience, and gratitude translate into everyday leadership, creating meaningful impact, and the integration of faith into the workplace. 

Tamara shares her journey from a successful corporate career to entrepreneurship, inspired by a personal tragedy, emphasizing the importance of faith-driven decision making, and the GRASP framework (Gather, Reflect, Ask, Strategize, Proceed with Faith). 

The episode underscores the significance of being a beacon of hope, aligning personal values with professional actions, and striving for significance over mere success.

🌐 Connect with Tamara:
• Website: https://beaconship.co/ and https://leadreviver.pro/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachtam/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebeaconship/

📚 You can purchase Tamara's book on Amazon:
• 265 Point: https://www.amazon.com/dp/149446537X/

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction: Defining True Leadership
• 0:53 Meet Tamara Jackson: From Corporate to Entrepreneurship
• 4:11 The Turning Point: Personal Loss and New Beginnings
• 7:36 Finding Meaningful Impact Beyond Success
• 16:20 Faith in Leadership: Belief, Resilience, and Gratitude
• 23:01 Balancing Faith and Inclusivity in Leadership
• 28:18 Being a Beacon: Leading with Light and Values
• 29:08 The Importance of Authenticity in Leadership
• 30:15 Balancing Authenticity and Tolerance
• 31:31 Navigating Relationships with Different Beliefs
• 35:26 Faith-Based Decision Making: The GRASP Framework
• 40:50 Reflecting on Decision Making and Values
• 47:32 Rapid Round Questions with Tamara Jackson
• 53:15 Final Thoughts and Next Episode Preview

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:01

What do you truly stand for when no one's watching? How do you lead with conviction without imposing your beliefs on others? And if life reminded you tomorrow that time is short, would you be proud of how you're showing up today? In today's episode, I'm joined by Tamara Jackson, founder of Beacon ship, and host of the beacon Show. Today we explore how belief, resilience and gratitude translate into everyday leadership, what authentic, inclusive faith looks like at work, and how to be a beacon for others amid pressure and uncertainty. This conversation is about courageously aligning your inner compass with your outer leadership, without judgment, without dogma, and with a whole lot of love and impact. Let's dive in. Hey everyone, and welcome back to The Leadership Project. I'm greatly honored today to be joined by Tamara Jackson. Tamara is the founder of an organization called Lead Reviver, and after a successful corporate career, also the founder of an organization called beaconship, and the host of the beacon show. And she looks to help people combine faith together with innovation and technology. And we're going to talk a little bit about the role of faith in leadership. Does it have a role? Does it have a conflicting role with looking to run a business, but it's also very important to a lot of people their faith. So this is going to be a really interesting conversation. I invite you to come into this with an open mind and an open set of ears, and let's hear from Tamara about this integration of faith into her leadership. So Tamara, without any further ado, please say hello to the audience. Tell us a little bit about your background, but I'm most interested to know what inspired you to transition from a very successful corporate career into founding beacon ship and the bacon show?

Tamara Jackson: 2:02

Yeah. Thank you so much, Mick, for the opportunity to be here and share with this audience. I know that. I'm sure lots of people want to be here, so I'm honored to be able to spend time with you and your community today. A little bit about me as you've shared. I grew up in the corporate space, had a 25 year career in financial services. Started out very, very frontline associate type of role. I was answering the phone just trying to kind of get my foot in the door. And I was persistent, and over time, I was able to move up that ladder, got the coveted VP title. Had a pretty amazing career and salary, but I did get to a point about halfway through my experience in corporate where I started having the itch for more, and maybe someone that is watching or listening to us can identify with that. As successful as I was, I felt like something was missing, that I wanted to make an impact in a different way. So actually, for half of my corporate career, I was I would have what many people would describe as a side hustle. So I had different business interests that I pursued on the side. So was very dedicated to that corporate career, but in evenings and weekends, where I could squeeze in time, I would be working on other things. So there was a part of me that always knew that entrepreneurship was something that I wanted to pursue full time, but the question for me was, how and when? How do I transition from corporate to working full time, and then what is the right timing? And because I could not answer that question. Mick, for so long, I stayed I worked really long hours trying to fulfill my corporate duties, and then I would stay up late into the night and work most Saturdays trying to make sure that my side hustles for were successful. So maybe someone that's that's watching or listening to me right now can identify with that. And the question that you asked, is a really important one, and I love the word choice. You said, what inspired me to step out of that and work full time in projects that I'm passionate about, I think for me. Mick, it was the realization that life is fragile. In 2022 my mom was diagnosed with stage four breast cancer, and the doctor shared with us that there

was a 50: 4:23

50, chance that she would be here a year from now. So at that point, I literally put everything on hold, my corporate career, the side hustles that I was juggling, and I left Charlotte, North Carolina, went back to Richmond, Virginia, where I grew up, and I went there to be with my mom, so I spent that time with her. She ended up not making it a full year. She passed away about 10 months later, but I'm so grateful for that time that I got to spend with her. We had great conversations, lots of laughs, and I have memories that I will be able to carry with me now that I wouldn't have had. If I could not have spent that time with her, but at the same time, Mick, what that time with her taught me, and then the years since that's happened, she passed away in 2023 it's just helped me to realize that there are no guarantees, like you don't know how much time you have on the clock. And so what inspired the decision to leave corporate and to step into entrepreneurship full time was just the realization that I had these things that I wanted to do, and my ability to do them while juggling the corporate career was going to be limited. So I finally just came to this realization, there's no better time than the present. I ripped the band aid off and step full time into entrepreneurship. So beacon ship really spoke to the side of me that is very faith driven, that wants to make an impact in the business marketplace, not necessarily behind a pulpit, but I wanted to be to bring that faith lens into the marketplace. And then the AI company lead Reviver is a passion project of mine. I've been using AI since 2021 long before chatGPT and all the other AI platforms that are now mainstream. So I loved tinkering with AI. So when I figured out that aI had the potential to solve problems that solopreneurs and small teams face every day, I knew it was something that I wanted to be a part of so long answer, but that's what inspired me, and that's why I'm here today.

Mick Spiers: 6:28

Yeah, that's great, Tam. Look, first of all, sorry for your loss, but I'm also pleased to hear that you got to spend those precious moments with your mum in those last moments, what was screaming out to me when I was listening to you, first of all, the impermanence of life, and we forget this, that is actually what makes life beautiful, and to realize that we all have limited time, whether that can be a traumatic event or it could be just, you know, life is impermanent. So so to think about the choices that we make, and for you, what I'm hearing is that trauma in your life made you stop and realize, well, hang on a second, what's really important. And that leads me back to one of the first things you said, is you, even before that trauma, you were looking in your day job and you were successful, but something was missing, and you wanted more. But what I heard is the more wasn't more money, a bigger house, a bigger car, it was something else. So tell us more about that. What was the something missing?

Tamara Jackson: 7:36

Yeah, so I think for me, Mick, and maybe others, can identify with this. I knew I was making an impact in my role, like I could look at, you know, the score cards that we were evaluated against. I could look at my annual review. So I knew I was making a difference, but it wasn't making a difference in the way that was most meaningful to me, like I didn't have the ability to see how people's lives were truly dream being transformed through the work that I did. I knew that we were making the company more revenue. I knew that we were becoming more operationally efficient and conceptually. I know that that impacts people, but I had a desire to impact people on an heart and soul level, and I wasn't really getting that and the corporate career, and I think that's what kept pulling me to these side hustle projects, is I wanted to work with people and really get in the trenches with them and help them to grow and develop because that had been so helpful to me. I had so many people that came along, both personally and professionally, that mentored me, that shared things with me, that I wouldn't be the person that I am today without them, and I wanted to be a part of having that same type of impact on others.

Mick Spiers: 8:52

Really good, Tamara, I'm going to say there's two words screaming in my head, impact and meaning. So bear with me for a second. I'm going to say to the audience, you can be impactful in any job, in any company. But the question is, is that impact meaningful? Is it meaningful to you? Is it something that you go home at the end of the day proud of going I made a difference today. So impact? Yes, but meaningful, impact is where the difference is made. Now tell me, Tam, I'm going to put you on the spot here a little bit. How does it feel? The difference between impact and meaningful impact? How does that feel?

Tamara Jackson: 9:32

Yeah, I think that that when you have impact, but it's not meaningful to you. And to your point, how we answer that question is going to vary from person to person, but when it is meaningful impact you you go to bed differently, like now I'm able to go to bed and know, listen, I planted some seeds, even if they haven't come to fruition yet. I planted some seeds that. Can just imagine a year from now, two years from now, five years from now, what that's going to lead to. And there's a sense of satisfaction from that that makes me, you know, believe that even if I hope I have more time, but even if I left here today, I just have this feeling like I gave it all that I could, I made all the impact that I could make with the time that I have, the skills, the talents, the resources that I have when I wasn't operating in the space where it was truly meaningful. It was just this, this void. It was this hollowness, is how it would describe it to what I was doing is I knew that the, you know, the all of the things that people often hold up as success, were there, but in my heart of heart, I knew that there was still a void, that there was more that I could do that I wasn't doing. So that's how I would describe the difference between the two.

Mick Spiers: 10:56

Yeah, really good, Tam. Now I'm going to illustrate something with you here and say, like it meaningful impact is different for for different people. So I'm going to share my meaningful impact the way that I view it. So I've spent the second half of my career in the urban mobility industry, so railway signaling and train control systems and all kinds of things, and of obviously, I've got the Leadership Project is also a huge inspiration and calling for me as well. But when I when I look at it, let's go with the urban mobility world. I could have impact by growing the business, more revenue, more sales, all this kind of stuff. But what's more important to me is the impact that we have on people's lives, that we create a world where people can get to and from work without delays, without disruptions, without stress, and to get home safely to their families at the end of the day. That's the meaningful impact, the impact that we make money along the way. That's helpful because it fuels the the impact. But the meaningful impact is the impact on people's lives. And for the leadership project, it's got meaningful impact is to remember that people spend up to 1/3 of their life in the workplace, so anything that we do to help leaders to create a better environment is enriching people's lives, because they're not going into stressful, toxic workplaces. So I'm just illustrating that that that for you, Tam, your meaningful impact, you're founded. But anyone can find it, and it doesn't even have to mean changing jobs. You can find it where you are, depending on where you are. You can potentially find it where you are. How does that sit with you, this meaningful impact? And working out, what is the end result of what I'm doing here, not just the money and the results, the end result?

Tamara Jackson: 12:42

Yeah, I think that ultimately, that's what many of us are looking for, Mick, we're looking for significance, like we want to know that when we leave here, the world is somehow different and better, and so I think that's what we are, whether we realize it or not. That's what many of us are searching for is not just success, but I want to do something significant. I know that I'm here for a reason. Every day that I think to myself, every day that I wake up, I mean, I'm still here because there must be more for me to do. And I think we're on this journey as leaders to figure out what is, what does significance look like for me, so that I have the satisfaction that I have fulfilled. I love the word that you used earlier, the calling that I have. I do believe that we all have that there's lots of things that we can do, but I believe that we all have a calling to fulfill, and none of us wants to leave here having not done that. And so yeah, I'm tracking with you 100%.

Mick Spiers: 13:46

There's so many great words that are coming from this interview, Tam. Thank you so much. So first of all, I'm gonna put this to the audience's questions right now. Are you being impactful? Is Question one, that's fine, but is it meaningful impact? And then listen to what tam just said, don't just strive for success, strive for significance. And are you leaving the world a better place behind you? And that world can be your household, can be your team, can be your workplace, but are you leaving it in a better place than the way that you found it and will people, it's almost like a legacy this significance. Will people remember the impact that that Tam Jackson had on the people that she intersected with?

Tamara Jackson: 14:30

Yeah, that's really how I think about it. Mick is all of this is about, at least for me, in this season of my life, it's about legacy, like it's it's not. I mean, making more money is great. Getting accolades is wonderful. It's always great to be appreciated and recognized. But at this stage in my life, what is most important to me is what I leave behind. And it's not because I want specifically people to be talking about me for years and years and years i. After I leave here, but it's more of the example that my mom left for me. So one of the things that I really took away from her passing is how well people spoke about the impact that she made in their lives. I went to her old job, and people just were flocking to me to tell they wanted to specifically tell me stories about how my mom had supported them, how they had how she had encouraged them. She was really big on goals, so she would always ask people about their goals and how they were progressing towards it. She financially gave to people that you know were going back to school and doing this and that, and so it's more about that type of experience, not because I want my name in light, but I want people to when I leave here, to be able to tell stories of how something that I said, something that I did, hopefully, through the work that we're doing with the beacon, show that something has made their life better. And I believe that many of us have a desire to leave that same type of legacy.

Mick Spiers: 16:04

Yeah, I love it, Tamara, I'm gonna share with you. I love the pride in your voice when you talk about your mum, and what I hear is a leader of significance and a leader that had a meaningful impact on people around her, right So, and that's exactly what we're talking about now. That leads me to what what's important to you now, you're you're a very much a person of faith. Tell me what faith means to you and how it intersects the way you show up?

Tamara Jackson: 16:33

Yeah. So for me, faith is believing in more than what you see. That's the simplest way that that I could describe it, because the reality of life, Mick and everyone that is that is watching and listening to us is life has ups and downs. I talked about, very transparently, one of the lowest lows that I have experienced in my 51 years. And what has enabled me to weather that and other storms is my faith. It's helping me to see that the way things are is not the way they will always be, that there is hope for tomorrow, even if today is really, really challenging, and even on the on the flip side of that, when things are really, really amazing, it gives you a sense of gratitude, of like, Hey, listen, I know what it's like to have those Valley moments. I'm so grateful that I was blessed to be in this space in this time. So faith is my rock. It's what steadies me. It what's it's what keeps me hopeful. It's when all else fails. It is what I hold on onto. So how does that impact how I show up in the world? I think most people that that know me on a one to one basis know that my faith is important to me because it it oozes through honestly through, you know how I show up, the conversations that I have and don't have, the things that I want to be a part of and don't want to be a part of, because for me, faith is kind of the guide to my decision making. That's something that I've really, really leaned into more and more, is letting faith lead when it comes down to making decisions, and even in instances where all the options seem to be good options, one of the things that I've learned is that there is still a difference between following the path that is laid out for you and following a path that can ultimately look good but lead you down the wrong place. So faith shows up in every aspect of how I show up, how I lead, how I run both businesses. Beacon ship is very faith forward. Lead Reviver is faith driven, like I bring the values that I believe in into the work that we do, but we don't lead with faith in that space. But it doesn't change that the internal operating principles that I use and the people that I'm blessed to work alongside, we still show up with those same values in both spaces. So that's my thought on how I would answer that question.

Mick Spiers: 19:08

Really good, Tam I'm going to share three words that are ringing in my head when I hear you, the word belief, the word resilience and the word gratitude. So first of all, the word belief, or what I'm hearing here, and we can even just use Henry Ford here. You know, whether you believe you can or you can't, you're probably right. So without some kind of belief, you're really limiting your your chance of being successful in whatever that in endeavor was going to be. Then the resilience that this too shall pass. If you're going through tough times, this too shall pass. But if you're going through good times, guess what? This too shall pass, so.

Tamara Jackson: 19:49

That's going to pass too, yeah? That's true.

Mick Spiers: 19:52

Yeah. So be careful. So be careful and and then there's the gratitude that when you've. Taken notice of the bad times. You can be very grateful for the good times and grateful for what you do have instead of being, I'm going to say, upset about what you don't have. So be grateful for what you do have instead of being upset for what you don't have. And that's what can drive you forward. How does the three words sit with you? The belief, the resilience, the gratitude?

Tamara Jackson: 20:23

I think that if we can hold on to those three things, Mick, we will, we will be doing great, right? Because those three things are what, in my opinion, allow us to stay optimistic about our personal lives and the world that we live in. The reality is, it's not just, you know, even though sometimes it seems that way, Mick, it's just us on an island, the reality is that we're also a part of this bigger world. So even when things are going well for me, there can be challenges in my family, in my community, there can be challenges in the country that I live in, or for those that have a heart for others that even aren't in the same country, you know, you can look at the news, you can see the tragedy and the trauma that others are experiencing. So things can be really, really good for me, but not be good for others and vice versa. It is that belief, that resilience and that gratitude that allows us to stay anchored in both scenarios, believing that things can get better, that not just in our human resilience, but in the resilience of people in communities, in nations, to be able to survive these things and gratitude, gratitude for when things are going Well for us, and you know, it's our season to kind of shine and to feel that significance and success, but also gratitude, that I hope those that are really embracing that title of leaders, gratitude to be in a position where you can help others. So one of the things that I try to focus on is whether things are good for me or not. How can I focus on the positive? What is it that I still am really blessed in whether that's time, whether that's money, whether it is encouragement, just being able to say something to someone that can help them? How can I let live in gratitude and allow some of my blessings to overflow to other people. So that's how I think about the three words that you've highlighted here.

Mick Spiers: 22:28

Yeah, I love that, Tam, and it's very, very much from a service point of view. And to be a beacon, I'm going to use your word to be a beacon. If you're able to do that, you can be a beacon for others. They might be going through tough times themselves, and you might be the very person that they needed in their life right now, if you're able to show up with that belief, with the resilience, with the gratitude, but also to be able to your gifts might be the very gifts that someone else is is waiting on. That's really interesting. Tam, alright, so I want to go deeper into into faith on two things. The second one is going to be about the faith based decision making. But before we get there, when I heard you talk about faith, I was listening very carefully, and I didn't, and I know that you're a Christian, I didn't hear the word God Jesus anywhere there. I heard a lot about belief, resilience, gratitude, that we spoke about about values. I heard a lot about values. I didn't hear a lot about specific religion. Now, why am I bringing this up? I'm going to tell you that when people hear the word faith based leadership, I can tell you that half the audience are going to be sitting up in their chair going, Yeah, I'm I'm a person of faith. Tell me more. How do I how can I bring my faith into my leadership, and then half the audience are going to be going, Oh, please don't impose your religious beliefs on me. How do you balance that, Tam, how do you balance that, that you are a Christian and you you have your religious beliefs, but that's not what I heard when you said about faith based leadership. How do you balance that some people are going to have the same religious beliefs of you and some are not religious at all, or have different religious beliefs?

Tamara Jackson: 24:14

Yeah, it's a really great question, and I think it's it's probably one that many people, especially the group that you described, the first group that you described, they're like, Yeah, I'm all about faith based leadership. They've probably struggled with that tension before. I can think about many times in my journey where I was in situations where people made me feel like I had to choose, and something inside of me just didn't sit well with me. I just didn't like the idea that in order to be successful, I had to put my beliefs on the shelf. But it did challenge, challenge me, Mick to say, okay, not everyone has the same religious beliefs that I have. Not everyone believes in God, not everyone believes in Jesus. And. Is me shouting from the rooftops that I'm a Christian, the most important thing as a faith driven leader, and my answer to that, believe it or not, is no. Because when I think about the example for those that do follow Christianity, the goal was not to shout from the rooftops who I am. It was about meeting people where they were having relationship with them, and through that relationship, you got to know one another. The love was felt in that relationship. And in some instances, that meant that people came to believe more of what you believe. And then in other instances, that's not how it turned out, but the way that you treat people, the way that you show up, the way that you lead, does not change. And so for me, that is why I answered the question the way that I did. I have operated in both spaces enough to know that some people are really going to identify with faith driven leader, and some are not, but I just personally believe this is true for so many things. Mick, that we focus too much on what makes us different. And what I would love to see is for us to focus more on where we align. And I think the principles that we talked about today are something that 99% of people align on and then as we get into relationship, maybe as people listen more to what I have to say, maybe they check out who I am beyond this interview, maybe they will get to know me more. And even if they don't believe, maybe they will still find value in what I'm able to share. And so my focus is on relationship, and I trust that through relationship, it will grow. For those that are attracted to that religious or faith based message, then great, but some people will never be attracted to that. But when I look at the Bible, Jesus spent time around people that did not share all of the same beliefs, and so my goal is to follow the example that I was given. And I'm I'm not the one that's going to do that work anyway. So that's not that outcome is not on me.

Mick Spiers: 27:12

Really interesting, Tam, so I love the inclusion. Everything you're talking about is very inclusive of all people, of all beliefs. And I love this word relationship and and what I'm taking away from it is that once you have that relationship and that connection, and you're getting closer to the person, what I'm projecting is that then most likely, then going to get curious and goes, Yeah, tell me more about that, Tam. And then you can be in a dialog about your your faith and your religion, but it's an invited dialog. It's not an imposed dialog, where the person might if you opened up, Hi, I'm Tam, I'm Christian zealot, and I'm not calling you a zealot, by the way, I'm just exaggerating.

Tamara Jackson: 27:53

Yes, I got you.

Mick Spiers: 27:55

Hi, my name's Tam. I'm a I'm a Christian, Christian seller. They, they're going to shut down straight away. But if you build a relationship with you, with them based on your values, they're going to see your values in action, and they're going to get drawn to you, and then they're going to get curious, and then you can have a religious conversation some other time, if appropriate, if and when appropriate. How does that sit with you?

Tamara Jackson: 28:16

That's exactly right. You know, in my view, that's ultimately what a beacon is. They are light. I think, when I think about because I think about that, you know, we don't talk about them much now. Mick, but we I think about those lighthouses that are out there that, you know, will guide that ship to keep it from crashing on the shore, right? It's that light that kind of guides people along the sea, the you know, the ocean, wherever they're they're at right? And so that's really how I think about my role. It is not to convert x number of people to Christianity or beat people over the head with my beliefs. At the end of the day, my goal is to be a beacon in every space that I'm in, and some people are going to be attracted to that light, and then that gives me an opportunity to have that conversation with them.

Mick Spiers: 29:08

Yeah, nice. And once again, back to this word beacon, which I love, by the way, the other thing I'm that's screaming in my head is the word authenticity, Tam, and the word that you used before is something just didn't sit right with me. So there's an authenticity of showing up as a faith based leader, that you know what your values are, you know what you believe in. And when something doesn't sit right with you, you can go, hang on a second. That's that's not true to myself, That's not true to my values. I need to do something different. So there's a deep authenticity in knowing what your values are. And for you, it is Christian based values, but for anyone that has values and they've done the work to know who they are and what they stand for and what they won't stand for, by the way, because that's where injustice comes in. If you know your values. You can then show up as your authentic self, because you're not, once again, you're not imposing your beliefs on someone else, but you're sticking true to your own values. How does that sit with you?

Tamara Jackson: 30:11

Yeah, 100% and I believe that that's where we need to get to. I just, I feel like there's a couple of things that are going on right now, Mick, there are some people that are afraid to be authentic because they're concerned about how people will respond to them. Are they going to get canceled? Are they going to no longer be accepted in certain circles that they're in? So I think there's the camp that's kind of like, I'm afraid to be who I really am, because there might be consequences to me doing it. And then I think there are also people that are so authentic that they are intolerant. And I think this is, this is a space that I don't want to be in, because I believe that we should hold true to our beliefs, to our values, but I don't think we do that to the extent that it means that no one else, no one else's opinions, no one else's feelings, no one else's beliefs are valid. And so what I would love to see is us being authentic in our beliefs and at the same time, willing to listen to others. It doesn't mean I have to agree. Doesn't mean that we have to be on the same page, but sometimes we need to agree to disagree, but still be able to be in relationship. And I'd love to see us be able to do that more. I think that's what causes that first group to shy away from authenticity, because unfortunately, sometimes it does happen is as soon as you realize, oh, we're not on the same page. We don't think the same thing, we don't believe the same thing. Then now, all of a sudden, I can't be in relationship with you. I can't be in personal relationships. I can't do business with you. And I think we are all we all miss out when we do that. I learn a lot from people that don't share the same faith values that I have, but it doesn't mean that I can't learn from them, and then the same is true. I have clients that don't believe all the same things that I believe, but they appreciate the rigor that we bring to our work, the integrity, the discipline, the discernment that we bring to the work that we do. So I think we are all missing out when we don't operate in authenticity and at the same time, be willing to be in relationship with others that don't share those same values.

Mick Spiers: 32:29

I love this. This is a beautiful compass, Tam, so I am concerned about what you said about people that may be shying away from from being their true self and worried like the fear of being canceled or fear of being ostracized, whatever the case may be. So anyone listening to tam about this be true to yourself and step in and be true to yourself, but do so in a way that's not intolerant of other beliefs and other other ways of seeing the world. And then we can go into a world of co creation Tam, where if you come with your beliefs and your thoughts, but you are open to other ideas, to at least listen to them, you'll walk away from any conversation richer than you walked in. If you're walking away from every conversation with the same knowledge and thoughts is that you walked in, you're not really listening, and you're not being tolerant of other perspectives. So that's a bit of a compass for everyone to think about, be yourself, but also be tolerant that that there are people that are not the same as you. We're all different.

Tamara Jackson: 33:34

Yeah. And I think if we really think of this as relationship, that will change everything. I think so many times it's a battle of who's right and who's wrong. And I think you know, all of us, when we really step back and look at the most important relationships in our lives, no one is always right, no one is always wrong. Even when you think you're right, you might have to compromise sometimes, right? So if we bought that, if we bought that same energy into these spaces where we don't always agree, I just, I just can imagine things being so much better, and maybe, you know, you you would convince me of some things that I, you know right now, I'm like, I don't know about that, but if you really treated me like a person that you wanted to be in a relationship with, I would be more open to what you have to say. And the same is true. Like how I approach people is going to determine their receptiveness to what I have to say. Sometimes people just don't listen because of the how. And it's not what you're doing, but it's how you're doing it.

Mick Spiers: 34:43

How you're doing it, how you said it. Are you aggressive, you know, all kinds of things. Yeah, really good time. Relationship is a word that keeps coming back in the conversation. I really love that, you know, share a funny saying that I sometimes use, and my wife and I laugh about this, but there's a real message in it. Yeah. And that is, we sometimes say, Oh, do you want to be always right, or do you want to be married?

Tamara Jackson: 35:06

They can't do both right?

Mick Spiers: 35:10

But you can. I'm talking marriage there, but you can do that in any relationship,

Tamara Jackson: 35:14

Any relationship that's right.

Mick Spiers: 35:15

Can be business relationship with customers. Do you want to be always right, or do you want to have a business relationship, any relationship, you can apply the the same ruling, okay, yeah. That leads us to, what does faith based decision making look like?

Tamara Jackson: 35:32

Yeah, and, you know, Mick, this is, this is a really important question for me, because, you know, I can think back several years ago, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have had an answer to this question, like, as a matter of fact, even though my values, my faith, was really, really important to me, and I tried, you know, to make decisions that I knew wouldn't clearly violate those beliefs I didn't realize until recently, Interestingly enough, after I stepped out of the corporate space and had more time to reflect, more time to sit, more time to follow my faith practices, it wasn't until then that I realized, wow, there actually is a space For my faith in how I approach decisions, and over time, what that developed into is a little acronym that I use to keep myself on track. So I love to share it with the audience. So the acronym is grasp, so the first letter is G, and what I realized as I look back over my life and some of the decisions that I made, personally and professionally, is that I didn't always gather enough information. Sometimes I rushed into a decision because I felt pressured. You know, there's this deadline, there's this thing that we've got to do, or I was just really excited about it. I could see so much potential in it, and because I felt good about it, and even though I may have prayed about it a little bit here and there, but more so as I went along, I just was like, Oh, this has got to be good. This has got to be a good thing. It looks good. I'm going to go ahead and do it. And one of the things that I've learned is, you know what, Tam, sometimes you really just need to slow down. You need to ask them more questions. You need to do some more research. You need to maybe ask some people about their experience. If it's something that someone that you're looking at going into business with, you need to take time, slow down, gather some information, and that will help you make better decisions. The R is for reflection. So once you have gathered this information. It's really important to me. I've learned I need space. I need to pause a little bit. I need to digest this information. I need to try to discern what I should take away from it. Because sometimes, especially in this day and age, we have so many tools at our disposal. It's not just like back in the day where you had an encyclopedia to look up, to look in, or to go to library like at your fingertips, you can type a couple of words in Google and get all of this back. And now, in the age of AI, we can leverage chat, GPT and all these other tools to get information overload. So creating space to really reflect on what I have gathered is really important. The A stands for ask for guidance. And as a person of faith, for me, that is two fold. One, I'm asking for that spiritual guidance. Of course, I'm doing that every day, and everything that I'm doing anyway, but this is a very intentional, specific time on this particular decision that I'm looking to make, asking God for guidance on this, the path that I should take, and at the same time also asking people that are really knowledgeable about this subject. You know, I recognize, looking back, that a lot of decisions that I made, I probably could have saved myself some heartache, some money, some lost time by just asking people that were wise, that had experience in that space about what their advice would be. So A is asking for guidance. The S is the part that I find to be really fun, but again, many times I had skipped the steps leading up to this, and that's coming up with a strategy. Okay, now I want to strategize, but I want to make sure that I'm strategizing wisely based on the information that I've gathered. I've given myself time to reflect. I've asked for guidance. What does this all say? You know, how can I put together a plan to start moving in a direction that I believe that I need to go in, but maybe not, you know, go all in, maybe not. Put all of my eggs in one basket. How can I be wise about the first steps that I'm going to take? And then once I have come up with that strategy, which may also mean that I need input from others in developing that, then I'm ready to proceed in faith. And again, the faith is not, of course, the you know, my. Values are undergirding everything that I do, but when I talk about faith here, it's more about just just believing in that resilience that we talked about earlier. It's not proceed in faith. I am 100% sure that everything is going to work out exactly like I thought it would, according to this plan that I developed, but it's a belief that, hey, some things are going to work out, some things aren't, but I am resilient enough that I am going to be able to keep going. I'm going to be able to figure out what works that and what doesn't, and eventually I'm going to get to the place that I need to be, which, interestingly enough, in my experience, Mick is not always the place that I started off going to, but I end up where I am supposed to be. So that's what faith based decision making looks like for me these days.

Mick Spiers: 40:50

That's really good, Tam. I'm going to play back to you some of the things that you've just said, but also things that have built up for me through our conversation. And the first one, I'm going to keep on coming back to the things that you've said, where you said, Oh, something just didn't feel right. Okay. So, so in terms of the faith based decision making in business, I'm extrapolating a little bit here, and I'm testing it with you, and then I'm going to come to the Grasp framework as to how it might show up. So I'm going to say to the audience, if you're in business, and you're making a decision, but something doesn't feel right. That might be alerting you to the decision you're about to base, about to make is maybe contrary to your values. You can call it intuition, you can call it gut feeling, but I think it's signaling to you, hang on a second pause that doesn't feel right. It's trying to tell you something, and what I'm trying to say here is, is to look, if you're looking at making a decision and look on surface, it looks like a good business decision, but it doesn't feel right, then it's not the right decision. If you're looking at a decision that is aligned with your values, but is a bad business decision, then it's the wrong decision. So we're looking to always not, not to be at the expense of the other. So a good business decision shouldn't be at the expense of your values, and a good values based decision shouldn't be at the expense of your business, is what I'm trying to say here. So if you're getting that feeling, then pause and grasp gather more data, reflect on what that data means, ask from guidance, from whoever that is that you trust to give you some guidance. Have a strategy on what the first step might be, and then to proceed with faith and the proceed with faith. Tam, it came back to that Henry Ford thing for me, if, if you start out on a journey thinking it's going to fail. It's it's going to fail. Starting out on the journey thinking it's going to succeed doesn't automatically mean it's going to succeed, but it's got a better chance now, right? So absolutely, so proceed with faith. Otherwise, don't proceed. If you go, Ah, whatever. Let's try. If you, if you're starting the conversation with let's try. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. You have to. Once you've decided you need to proceed with faith, how does a let's hit with you. This, this gut feeling, this balancing between, don't make a decision that compromises one or the other. And then if you find yourself in that situation, pause, it's the wrong decision. Pause, pause and gather, reflect, ask for guidance, develop a strategy and proceed with faith.

Tamara Jackson: 43:27

Yeah, I love the way that you sum that up, Mick, because I think it describes how complex making decisions really is. You know, one of the things that I've realized is I can't remember. I don't know if you had this experience. Mick, but I can't remember anybody actually sitting me down at any point in my 51 years to say, hey, Tam, here's how you make decisions. So I think we kind of pick up ways. We observe other people. We might read this or that. We might pick up something from here or there, but there's not a whole lot of hey, this is the framework. This is the path that you take when you're making a decision. And sometimes they're really big decisions, and sometimes they may seem like small decisions, but often have big consequences. And so the tension that you've described does resonate with me is I'm trying to find that balance between my values and what is a good sound decision. And for me, being able to come up with this acronym was the answer for that, because until I had it, I was trying different things here and there, and I was thinking that I was kind of, you know, going through the steps that I needed to take, and it wasn't until I was able to put to paper something that I can literally, when I first started out with this, I wrote it down a lot like I would literally write down my answers to each piece of it, like out either in my phone. Phone, or sometimes I'm kind of old school, I would write it in a notebook, and I still do that in some instances. But there are also many times where I'm literally, like in my mind, going through these steps to make sure that I'm not forgetting something, that I'm not overlooking something important. Because we have this ability as humans, once we get really excited about something, we can talk ourselves into it. And so this has been a really important journey for me to get to a place where I'm able to be more objective. I think that's the word that comes to mind as I think about this, is being able to be more objective in my decisions and not just lead with my feelings, because sometimes my feelings can get me in trouble.

Mick Spiers: 45:45

Yeah, really good, Tam, and that's also a very aware situation, to understand that your feelings are part of that decision, not it doesn't have to be the decision. But if you're doing this grasp framework, you're bringing it all in together. So you're not going to a Excel spreadsheet where everything is going to be very academic. Either you're not ignoring the feelings, but you're not. Yeah, it's it's that balance. It's really good. Tam, look, you've given us so many great things to to think about in today's show. I'm going to reflect on some of them and take us to our final round of our Rapid Round questions. So you've really made a stop and think about not just impact, but meaningful impact. Where can you find meaningful impact in your current job or around you? Where can you find meaningful impact? Instead of just striving for success, strive for significance, to be significant to others around you to be that beacon. It could be a beacon of hope that people need right now, but to be that beacon that people can gravitate towards, that you can show up as a faith based leader and be authentic and be true to yourself, be true to your values. Who are you? What do you stand for? What won't you stand for? And let that be your compass when you're making decisions and how you show up as a leader. And if something doesn't feel right, check in with yourself. Use this framework, this grasp framework, to gather more information, to reflect, to ask for guidance, to have a strategy and then proceed with faith. But don't ignore the signal. If it doesn't feel right, it's telling you something. And get more curious before you make that decision. All right. Tim, absolutely love this. Let's go to our final four questions. These are the same four questions that we ask all of our guests. So what's the one thing you know now? Tamara Jackson, that you wish you knew when you were 20?

Tamara Jackson: 47:44

Yeah, I think the first thing that comes to mind is Enjoy your youth, because it goes fast. What I mean by that is, you know, I can remember being a teenager, being in such a rush to grow up, like I wanted to have a job, I wanted to have a car, I wanted to have all those things. And now that I know what being an adult and all the responsibilities that come with being an adult, I would tell myself, listen, don't be in such a rush. Enjoy your youth. Take more chances. I was in a rush to get in a stable career and have all of these things. If I had known then what I know now, I think I would have taken more chances, and I would have enjoyed being a young adult and not being in such a rush to get older fast.

Mick Spiers: 48:30

Oh, this is so true, Tam. We spend our first years wanting to be older. We spend our last years. Oh, I wish.

Tamara Jackson: 48:36

I was ready to be young.

Mick Spiers: 48:41

What is your favorite book, Tam?

Tamara Jackson: 48:44

Yeah, this is, this is tough, because if you guys were to zoom out into my office, I have literally hundreds of books. So for you to ask a person like me what my favorite book is, is really, really challenging, but here, here's the answer that comes top of mind for me. My favorite book is Jesus calling. It's a very small book that just has a short devotional in it for each day. It makes a relationship for those that can identify with my beliefs, it makes a relationship with Christ personal, and so I really appreciate being able to have that short encouragement as a start to my day and really ground me and get me in a place where I realize, okay, I'm not alone in this world. I have, you know, that support that I need, and just getting that little dose of information really makes a difference for my day. So that's my answer for today.

Mick Spiers: 49:45

I can definitely see the meaning for you. That's really good. Tim, what's your favorite quote?

Tamara Jackson: 49:50

That is tough too. But you know what? When you asked me, you told me this question was coming earlier, the quote that came to mind is a quote. Quote by Jim Rohn, and he's no longer with us, but was a really popular motivational speaker, and I used to have it when I was in corporate. I used to have it actually taped on my cubicle, and he said, don't wish it were easier. Wish you were better. He also had this sailing about this saying about not wishing for a smooth seas, but wanting to be a better sailor, or something to that effect. What I took from those quotes, and I had no idea of, you know, the ups and downs that I was would experience in my life, but it gave me perspective. Is like, don't wish for things to be easier, because the reality of life is we are going to have those those tough moments. But how can I become stronger? How can I become more resilient? How can I become more grounded? How can I remain optimistic, even when there are times when it doesn't seem like there's anything to be optimistic about. That is a skill that I think can carry us through some really difficult situations.

Mick Spiers: 51:06

Really good, Tam, you had me captivated there with all of that. And yeah, we do need to stop and reframe these things. It's really great. And finally, Tamara Jackson, how do people find you? There's going to be people listening to this. They could be at any end of that spectrum, but I'm going to say there's going to be people that go that do want to be a faith based leader and and be true to their values and beliefs. How do people find you if they'd like to know more?

Tamara Jackson: 51:33

Yeah, so I would, I would share a couple of ways. LinkedIn is the platform that I hang out on most, and I actually talk about both on that platform. So I'd love for you to connect with me on LinkedIn. Tamara Jackson, you'll be able to find me there, and you'll see both beacon ship and lead Reviver. If being inspired by beacons is of interest to you. I would love for you to find us on YouTube the beacon show. We've recorded two seasons of episodes with faith driven leaders in all spaces. So some operate in ministry. Some operate multi million dollar corporations. It's been really fun and cool. Some are in the arts, in movies and theater. It's been really cool to sit down with people and unpack some of the leadership lessons that they've learned along the way. So I'd love for you to subscribe to the beacon show on YouTube, and then if you want to be a part of the beaconship community, you can visit us @beaconship.co and if AI is something that tickles your fancy and you want to see, well, how does a person leverage AI for actually a business case. I'd love for you to visit our website @leadreviver.pro Mick, thank you for the opportunity to share today.

Mick Spiers: 52:51

All right, brilliant. Tam, absolutely wonderful. Thank you. You are truly a beacon. You're a beacon, and I have love listening to you today. Thank you for sharing your time with us today, but also for authentically sharing sharing with us your values and beliefs. And I certainly walk away from this conversation richer and wiser than when we began. Thank you.

Tamara Jackson: 53:12

Awesome. Thank you, Mick.

Mick Spiers: 53:14

What a powerful conversation with Tamara Jackson as you reflect on tomorrow's journey, ask yourself this, where do my deepest values need to show up more boldly in how I lead this week? Who needs me to be a beacon right now? And what small act of belief, resilience or gratitude could I offer them? And if my calendar reflected my convictions, what would change first? If you enjoyed this, make sure you check out tomorrow's work, subscribe to the beacon show on YouTube, or explore the beacon ship community. And as always, if this episode sparks something in you, share it with a leader who's ready to show up with courage and heart. In the next episode, we'll be joined by Phil Wilson, seven times author and advocate for creating extraordinary workplaces where we'll be talking about approachable leadership and shrinking the power distance between boss and employee. Thank you for listening to The Leadership Project, mickspiers.com a huge call out to Faris Sedek for his video editing of all of our video content and to all of the team at TLP. Joan Gozon, Gerald Calibo And my amazing wife Sei Spiers, I could not do this show without you. Don't forget to subscribe to The Leadership Project YouTube channel where we bring you interesting videos each and every week, and you can follow us on social, particularly on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. Now in the meantime, please do take care, look out for each other and join us on this journey as we learn together and lead together.