257. Humanizing Strategy: The Collective Good with Britt Hogue

Imagine strategy as something felt, not just written—that's the core of Britt Hogue's approach to leadership. After years in corporate roles immersed in data and KPIs, Britt realized that behind every metric were real people making decisions. As the founder of The Collective Good, she now champions "humanized strategy" for mission-driven organizations, focusing on inclusion and collaboration in strategic planning.

Britt believes strategy isn't just about decisions—it's about who gets to make them. By involving diverse voices, organizations create strategies that are not only more effective but also embraced by the people who implement them. Her three-phase framework—listen deeply, prioritize transparently, and communicate clearly—helps leaders foster ownership and alignment, whether in a global enterprise or a small nonprofit.

In our conversation, Britt shares a powerful truth: inclusion isn't just a moral imperative—it's a business one. When people feel seen and heard, they contribute more, innovate boldly, and own outcomes. As she says, “Do it for the humans, do it for the business”—because in the end, both benefit.

🌐 Connect with Britt:
• Website: https://www.the-collective-good.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhogue/

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:01

What if strategy wasn't something done in boardrooms but something felt across the entire organisation? What if numbers and KPIs weren't the starting points, but people were? And what would change if strategy was less about control and more about connection? Today we're joined by Britt Hogue, a remarkable leader who left behind a high-powered corporate strategy role to find the collective good. Britt introduces us to a new way of thinking humanized strategy, a model that redefines how strategy is created, communicated and lived. It's thoughtful, it's people first, and it just might be the missing piece in how we lead impactful, authentic organizations.

Mick Spiers: 0:43

Let's dive in. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Leadership Project. I'm greatly honored today to be joined by Britt Hoag. After a very successful corporate career in executing transformations in large companies, Britt has formed an organization called the Collective Good and she now takes her strategic skills into organizations that are looking to derive societal goods, so taking some of those corporate skills into organizations that drive impact into the world and into society around a strategy that she calls humanized strategy. And that's what we're going to unpack today the human element of strategy. And how do you take strategy from pure numbers and data-driven and top-down approaches into a human-centered approach towards developing a strategy that really works. So I'm really excited to get into this today. But, Britt, what I'd love to start with is can you please tell us a bit about that corporate background? But mostly, I'm interested to know what inspired you to create the Collective Good and to go down this path of the humanized strategy.

Britt Hogue: 1:59

Yeah Well, thanks for having me, mick, it's great to be here. So I started my career in the corporate sector. I was an economics major in undergrad. I loved math, I loved the data-driven stuff, and most of my corporate career was working with data. And while I was working in the financial space and first at one of the big banks and then at a data company that really worked with financial data what I realized was that, ultimately, what we were doing with data was we were helping people make decisions. We were really helping folks take a lot of information, organize it in a way that they could make sense of it, make meaning from it, and then make better decisions with it. And I think that's really what was, at the end of the day, most meaning from it and then make better decisions with it. And I think that's really what was, at the end of the day, most interesting to me was how do people make better decisions using the information that they have available? And then during my time there, you know you kind of move through different levels of leadership management roles.

Britt Hogue: 3:02

I had the opportunity to start leading teams and, given where we were, we were expanding globally as a department I had the opportunity to lead teams in all different parts of the world. I had an opportunity to do remote teams before we had the luxury of Zoom and all the things that we know now about virtual teams. I was doing 20 years ago and having to kind of figure it out as I went along. But what I loved about that was the fact that I was learning about people and how people could be doing the same body of work in different parts of the world different languages, different cultures, different time zones and that we had to really figure out how do we operate as one team and respect the fact that we are very different and yet we're also very similar, and I just loved that. I felt like that was probably the start of this interest in the humanized side of work. It wasn't just about pumping out a product and getting data into our databases and helping folks make better decisions. That was a big part of what we were doing. But the other big part of what we were doing is we were functioning as one team distributed across the world and we had opportunities to learn about each other and learn about different cultures, and that just made it all so much more interesting to me, and so I was in that world for over a decade, and I loved it, and, as you said, though, I wanted to get closer to causes that were meaningful to me, and I started out by working doing pro bono projects.

Britt Hogue: 4:45

I joined a couple of boards of nonprofits, and I realized that those really were my people. You know, these are, these are the people that I want to be around. They're mission driven folks. They could probably be in other places making more money, but they're here doing things for communities that otherwise might not be offered, because these are, you know, nonprofit organizations are doing the things that companies and the government are not doing for the most part. So, and I just I love that. I love thinking about education and housing and work through this other lens, and so I started the Collective Good as really my way of kind of trying to do exactly what you said in the intro, which was, I had all these skills leadership skills, managing teams around the world, creating new products, serving clients, all of the corporate strategy.

Britt Hogue: 5:47

Toward the end of my time there, I was doing due diligence around acquisitions that we were making as an organization. I had all these great skills, and I thought I would love to bring them over to the social sector, and so that really was the goal for me personally was to take all of that and kind of point it at a new set of challenges. That would be challenging for me, with other people and organizations that are interested in bringing their skills from all different areas. Maybe they're from the nonprofit sector but they would like to utilize those skills in a different way. Maybe they're folks like me from the corporate sector who would like to bring their skills over into the social sector, who would like to bring their skills over into the social sector, and so collectively we could be doing good as one. And so that really was the genesis of the company and how I've made a pretty big pivot in my career to be able to kind of work here now in a space that is really fulfilling and where I continue to grow every day.

Mick Spiers: 7:06

Yeah, brilliant, brett. Thank you for sharing that. There's two distinct chapters that I'm taking from that and we're going to, I think, blend both of those into our conversation today. The first one is the realization. I'm putting myself in your shoes, the realization of looking at all these numbers in a business from an economics point of view, and the realization that, hang on a second, there's people at the other end of these numbers. This is not a numbers game, it's a people game and as I think it's. Simon Sinek famously puts it, all businesses are people businesses, and if you don't understand people, you don't understand business, and we can get so wrapped up in numbers that we forget that there are people at the end of these numbers. And then the second one is that drive towards having an impact, and I can see when you talk about it.

Mick Spiers: 7:59

The word fulfillment means something to you, that doing good means something to you. Fulfillment means something to you, that doing good means something to you. And then the double meaning of collective good. I didn't pick up on this when you and I first started talking, the double meaning of collective good, the collective good I was picturing the greater good for a greater number of people, which I think is true. But you're also saying hey, how do I get people around me that have got complementary skill sets that can multiply that impact? So it's a collective that is creating a collective good. So I'm curious let's start with the collective good. Tell me more about what that looks like. How do you get these talented people from different backgrounds around a worthy cause and getting all of those superpowers of these individuals pointed in the direction towards a greater societal impact?

Britt Hogue: 8:50

Well, thank you for that. I think you actually explained that so much better than I ever have in terms of the double meaning of it. And I think the first step for me is I've never put out really a call for consultants to come to work with us, to collaborate with us or to join our team. It has entirely come from me meeting people and really feeling a connection that these are folks who believe what we believe. They share this philosophy of I want to be part of this bigger thing. I want to be a part of doing some good. I want to and frankly, I could be doing things in other places and I'm choosing to be here doing this work in this space, and I want to be challenged and I want to be around other people who are going to bring a diversity of perspectives and experiences. So everyone who works with us really is a learner. We have values of curiosity, abundance and courage, and so curiosity you have to be kind of in a learning growth mindset all the time. The abundance piece is all the time the abundance piece is, you know we can do more together than we can do apart, and you know me, doing well doesn't mean that you can't do well, right, it's the opposite of a zero sum game we can all really do. Well, how do we kind of work to amplify each other's strengths and how do we share space? A lot of the work that we do, the humanized part of it, is really around co-creation. So how do we make sure that we're helping to bring more voices to the table, bring more voices into the strategy so that it can be a better strategy? And then the courageous part is you know, know, I want to be around folks who are willing to take a little risk and try something new.

Britt Hogue: 10:48

We try new things in the way we facilitate engagements with clients all the time.

Britt Hogue: 10:53

Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't and also that we have to be able to be willing to say the hard things touch on the hard things.

Britt Hogue: 11:02

One of the best ways that we're able to be good consultants and so I look for this in folks all the time is we can be a trusted partner to the leaders that we're supporting, to the teams that we're supporting.

Britt Hogue: 11:16

We can say the thing that sometimes is hard for them to say because they've got to work there every day, but we're walking in and we can say it. People don't have to like us at the end of day, but we're walking in and we can say it and people don't have to like us at the end of it, but usually they do because of the way that we we deliver it. We deliver it with care, we deliver with kindness, even if it's something that's really that's really hard. And so I think those are kind of the main things I'm looking for folks who really are, embody our values and who I don't have to explain a lot of it to them. They just they naturally kind of they show up that way I can feel it, they can feel it, we feel a connection and we say you know, we would love, you know, to find a way to work together and do more of this good stuff together.

Mick Spiers: 12:02

Oh, that's brilliant, Brett. There's a really powerful leadership lesson in what you're sharing there and I want the audience to pay close attention to this and that is that you said that you're not going out there actively recruiting for consultants, but people are finding you and going yeah, I want to be involved in this, and what I'm taking away with it? Two major things. One if you're able to articulate with deep clarity who you are, what you do and, most importantly, why you do it, you will attract people around you that believe in the things that you believe and will want to work for the worthy cause. People are really finding they understand this now that joy and fulfillment comes in the service of others, and you're showing them that here is a path towards having an impact that is truly meaningful. The second part, though, is you're also attracting people around you that have similar values, because you're out there saying you know, we believe in curiosity, we believe in abundance, we believe in courage, and therefore, the people that you're attracting are, I'm going to say, automatically going to be a good cultural fit, because you're attracting people with a growth mindset.

Mick Spiers: 13:10

You're attracting people with the courage to say things that need to be said, even if it's a difficult conversation and you are right, Sometimes it's harder for people inside those companies to say it than someone from outside. But you might be the spark that enables them, Like you might go into those. Imagine you're going into an organization and you say something and everyone looks at you, Britt, and goes, oh, this is it, this is it. And you're igniting something in them. How does that sit with you? You're attracting people by being just clear about who you are, what you do, why you do it, what your values are. Before you know it, there's 20 of you and you can co-create something much greater than any individual could have done.

Britt Hogue: 13:53

Yeah, I think that's exactly it. I think you know we hadn't spent a lot of money on marketing over the years. We've been maybe lucky. We have been in a position where we've had a lot of clients who returned to us and so I hadn't really had to go out there and hustle all that much to find new business, because we had so much repeat and return and referral business. But then we had a point where I really wanted to grow and specifically grow in a couple of new areas, and so I've hired a marketing manager and he and I have been working really closely to really look at our brand and think about how do we get out there and kind of tell our story even better, even more clearly, so that folks really do know who we are and how we show up.

Britt Hogue: 14:37

And it's interesting that I kind of feel like we've always done this. I think it's always been so important and that's really at the heart of all things marketing, right? Is that you want to be able to just make sure that folks understand who you are so that they can come to you, and they can also choose not to come to you, right, if you say well, here's who we are. We want to be really honest and help you understand what we believe in and the work we do and where we feel like we can add value. And if this is for you, then great, we would love to work together. If it's not for you, that's also okay, and so giving really folks the choice to like the truth so that they can make a good choice.

Mick Spiers: 15:22

You know what. There's a power in what you're saying there we had a recent guest teach us this as well that a powerful brand like that not only should attract the people that you want to work with, it should repulse the people that you don't want to work with, because if you end up people inside your organization, britt, that don't believe in the cause, that don't subscribe to those values that you spoke about, well, they're a mismatch. You don't want them anyway.

Britt Hogue: 15:44

You don't want them anyway, and that's something that we work with a lot of our clients on. I mean, I'll say so, it's a mismatch in terms of the people who come and work with us. I also hold it up for our clients. I want clients to say you know, that's great, it's not for us and that's wonderful, that's great. I would rather know that at the beginning than for us to struggle the whole way through and then for clients.

Britt Hogue: 16:09

You know, we work with a lot of organizations that are going through change and sometimes what's going to be on the other side of that change is something that maybe someone who worked in the organization didn't sign up for, and they have to be able to say, oh, this isn't what I signed up for. It's time for me to move on. I think sometimes leaders, you know, want to hold on to everyone and you know don't want to be the bearer of bad news, and so we kind of sugarcoat and we don't quite say the whole thing because we don't want to upset anyone, we don't want to lose anyone, and I think you know, long-term that actually doesn't work out. You want folks to just tell the truth, and the whole truth, so that they can make a good decision for them, and you can make a good decision for your organization.

Mick Spiers: 16:54

I think that's a really powerful path towards authenticity and that relationship that you have between the organization Say this is how we work and this is why it works, and if it's not for you, that's okay, that's okay. And if this ends up being in a no, it will enable us to do a better job of the people, of the things that we've said yes to. So I think there's a true power in that, britt. All right, I want to now convert that into a humanized strategy. What does humanized strategy mean?

Britt Hogue: 17:24

So it's not a new concept. I wish I could say that we were the first ones to land on this, but I believe very few things are new. We're just kind of innovating on things constantly. So humanized strategy is similar to human-centered design, right, a lot of folks are familiar with human-centered design or design thinking, and the very first step in that process of how do we design better solutions, better products, how do we problem solve better is empathy, right. So we have to actually understand the customer, or understand what the people in this, you know, dealing with this challenge, are experiencing. We put ourselves in their shoes so that we can really get it. And then, you know, figure out. Okay, now that we really understand what the challenge is, we can develop a better solution for it. So humanized strategy is a bit of that, right, let's make sure that the folks who are experiencing the challenge are involved in the solutioning for it. And then it's also an awareness that people are you mentioned, simon Sinek, right, organizations are groups of people just working together towards a common goal or set of goals, and so we have to remember that not only do we want to have folks at the table while we're designing the solution and giving folks an opportunity to participate in the solutioning. It's also going to be people who have to implement whatever solution we come up with, and so we have to be thinking about that as well.

Britt Hogue: 19:10

Recently, we held a group of webinars just free webinars for the community because a lot of nonprofits are going through a lot right now that organizations can do in a time of, you know, pretty seismic uncertainty, and one of them was on scenario planning. Okay, you may not know what's going to happen next month or next week even, but what you can do is say, okay, here's, here's the information that I have available. I want to try to start making some guesses and I can maybe chart out a couple of possible futures and then, as an organization, we can try to think about how we might respond. So we had two sessions on strategic frameworks and different things that you could do right now to be nimble in a state of uncertainty, and the third session we did was on humanized strategy, because what we wanted to really acknowledge and provide some support for was the fact that there are humans also at the center of all of this.

Britt Hogue: 20:18

It's not enough to just say here are some frameworks, let's try to figure out our way, like, how can we think our way through this challenging time? We also have to say, as a leader, this is a really hard time. Right, this is an especially hard time to be a leader. You have to be out in front and you don't know the answer. Right, it's really hard to have to be out there and answer to folks and help manage anxiety and help folks, reassure folks that things may be okay, but I'm not entirely sure they're going to be okay and I might not be okay.

Britt Hogue: 20:50

Right, as a leader, how do I take care of myself? So that third session was the human element of all of this, of take care of yourself and take care of your team, your people around you, while you are also trying to take care of the strategy and make sure that the organization can stay afloat, that the communities you serve can continue to be served, and so on. So that's kind of our whole philosophy, is everything we do. Let's not forget the human side of it.

Mick Spiers: 21:21

So let me share with you what I'm taking away from that. Britton, I want you to tell me if I'm on the mark and we can go further from there. The three words that came out were empathy, people, human. They were the three threads To pull those threads together. The empathy of understanding the end customer's problem, understanding their issues. Then inside the organization, understanding that you're dealing with people that have to execute this strategy and what are they going through I love the part that you included the leader in that as well. The leader is struggling at times and to have the empathy that, hey, you know, it's okay to not have the answers. We're going to show you why it's okay not to have the answers.

Mick Spiers: 22:06

Then the element of this people is a few things there. The people on, I'm going to say, at the grassroots of any organization that are close to the action usually understand the problem space better than anyone in the corporate boardroom. They understand the problem deeper than you could. So give them a good damn listening to, and they usually have at least some of the ingredients of what a solution might be. So, once again, give them a good damn listening to. So getting close to those people that understand the problem. And guess what? Whatever strategy you come up with, they're going to be the ones that have to execute it anyway. So if you're not engaging them in it, the battle's already half lost, not half won. It's already half lost if you haven't thought about the people that have to execute the strategy.

Mick Spiers: 22:53

And then the third part, the human element. Teddy Roosevelt was jumping into my head. Things like you know, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And people want to feel that they're in an organization where they matter, where actions demonstrate that people care about who they are and how they're doing, et cetera. And when they're in that environment, they're starting to feel like they can. Oh no, I belong here, I belong here, people care about me here. And when people feel like they belong, they're then willing to go and do their very best work. So it's kind of multi-leveled empathy. Hey, don't forget, there's people here that need to understand the problem and they're going to have to execute the strategy. And then there's this human element of care, well-being, and yes, you belong here. How does that sit with you?

Britt Hogue: 23:47

That's right, that's exactly right. Again, I feel like you've said it better than I ever could, but it is, and I think it's a little complex because it is multiple levels of okay, well, there's a human element here, there's a human element there, but I think, if we just sort of simplify it, just realizing that there are human beings, we are all human, we are all just trying to do the best that we can, I love what you said about you know, in kind of shaping that last part about people have to feel like they belong. They have to feel like, you know, my perspective matters. My opinion is going to be valued, whatever it is, and that's not just about feelings. We've worked with some organizations where we come in and we say people, you know, you have to, they have to feel like they belong, and people are like, oh, feelings, feelings. You know why are we spending so much time talking about feelings, where you know this is work we have to make. You know, yes, we want people to feel good, but it can't all be about that and we do have to bring it to the point that you also made, which is okay.

Britt Hogue: 24:48

Yeah, there's a moral component of this. You should want people to feel good. You should want people to feel safe.

Britt Hogue: 24:54

There's also a business side of it, which is people can't do their best work if they don't feel safe.

Britt Hogue: 25:01

If they feel like I can't challenge in a meeting, otherwise there might be some penalty or consequence, know consequence to that, well then you're not going to have anyone challenge, you're never going to get you know the pushback on the idea. Maybe you know, maybe it's not a great idea, but no one will ever say anything because they don't feel like they can say that. You won't have someone maybe go out on a limb and throw that crazy idea that they have into the, you know, brainstorming table because they're afraid that you know people will not think they're smart or they'll get shot down or whatever it is. And now you've had this great idea maybe it could have been a fantastic idea that solved the problem, but no one offered it because they didn't feel safe. So there's just a really there is a really important sort of do it for the humans, but also do it because you want the humans to be able to bring their best and that's how you get the best results as an organization.

Mick Spiers: 25:59

I'm going to throw a line to you and say do it for the humans, do it for the business, and then I'm going to connect the two, and that is let's use inclusion as an example and then ownership. So, with the inclusion, the first part you said is essentially that this is the right thing to do. No one deserves to work in a workplace where they feel excluded. No one deserves that we're all human beings and no one deserves that People spend up to one third of their life in the workplace. Britt, why would anyone deserve to work in a workplace where they feel excluded and treated poorly? But do it for the business. If that doesn't get you, do it for the business.

Mick Spiers: 26:39

How do you think people work when they don't feel included? Their work is terrible, right? So if you don't do it for the humans, do it for the business, but it's still the same answer, right? So if you don't do it for the humans, do it for the business, but it's still the same answer. Make them feel included, and when they feel included, they then take greater ownership and they will care enough to speak up when they don't agree with something and go hang on a second. Britt, this is good, but have you thought about? They'll only do that if they care.

Britt Hogue: 27:06

That's right. That's right, exactly, and that's the thing is. Only do that if they care. That's right, that's right, exactly, and that's the thing is. You know what's the point of having an organization full of people who are just gonna, you know, kind of punch in and punch out and not not give you their best thinking. You know, organization spend so much time recruiting and looking for folks who have these great skills and they've gone to great schools and they have this great background, and you know they bring all these great things into the organization and then if you don't enable them to open up and be able to give you all of that good stuff right, and give you their thoughts and their ideas, collaborate with each other and come up with even better ideas, then you know what are you doing. So I think, yeah, I love it. Do it for the business, Do it for the humans, do it for the business, do it for the humans, do it for the business, but just do it.

Mick Spiers: 27:53

Just do it yeah.

Britt Hogue: 27:54

Okay, all right.

Mick Spiers: 27:55

Really good. Now I want to go into something that might challenge things a little bit. There'll be a good journey to go on here. If we go completely financial, let's go back to where we started and we'll talk about strategies that are very top-down and financially driven, etc. Etc. That's not very motivating, first of all, and at best, if you have a strategy that's all about quarterly targets, et cetera, et cetera, at best you'll get people that have a transactional relationship with the business and will do the bare minimum to not get fired and to make sure that their head is not on the chopping block to make the quarterly result.

Mick Spiers: 28:38

It drives the wrong behaviors is what I'm trying to say here. But the challenge is, if you don't have some financial targets even in a not-for-profit, cash is not a dirty word. The cash is fueling the mission If you don't have some financial targets, how are you keeping track of the health of the business? So my question to you it's a challenging one how do we balance this very human-centered, impact-driven approach to strategy while still make sure we have our finger on the pulse of the business to make sure it doesn't run out of cash? It doesn't have to close the doors because it mismanaged the financial elements of the strategy managed the financial elements of the strategy.

Britt Hogue: 29:23

Yeah, and I think that's it gets to the real practical application of this right and a lot of what we were just saying. Right, it's not a trade-off. We're not saying go human and forget about the financials, you know, just ignore the cash and ignore the budget and just spend. Spend because you're doing it for the humans. You need to do both. And the reason you're investing in your people and you're bringing people to the table. And actually I want to go one step further even outside of the organization, you're bringing the community you serve, or the community you're physically in, into conversations as well, because they're impacted by the things you do, right, the products you make, the way you show up in terms of the environmental footprint and that sort of thing. You know you want to make sure and, as I'm saying from a business, nonprofits obviously have to have community at the table, because that's who they're serving, you know. So you want to have, you have all those people. And the reason you're doing that is so that you can produce better results. Right, so that you can have an impact. And I love your reminder that you know nonprofits sound like, oh, they're just a mission driven organization, they don't have to worry about cash. Well, they do.

Britt Hogue: 30:38

Nonprofits are still companies, right, they're tax exempt companies, but they're still companies, and while they may not be doing everything to make sure that shareholders are taken care of, they are certainly making sure that their communities are taken care of and that their constituents are taken care of, and they still have to manage their budget. They have to make sure that and that they land the year with with a profit. Right, they want to put money into reserves, the same way, you know, companies do, and so they they're not just burning through cash, they're looking for ways to have the greatest impact while also managing their financial responsibilities. And so you structure it the way you would, you know, any other kind of organization. You need the people who are watching the numbers. You need to be able to have those conversations where you say look, we, as a nonprofit organization, have to do both. We have to deliver on the mission and we have to be good stewards of our resources and be responsible in terms of how we're spending. So how do we, you know, continue to do both? How do we take care of our people, take care of our communities, while also tracking the numbers? And I think you can right.

Britt Hogue: 31:50

We've worked in nonprofits where you know people still want to know how's the organization doing and they want to make sure that they're delivering the results. You know you talk to the people who are in charge of fundraising for a nonprofit and they are extremely numbers driven. I mean they will rattle off all sorts of numbers and make sure they're hitting their marks because they want to bring. That's the engine that drives the good. So we've got to be able to hit these numbers so that we can do more for the community. You know nonprofit organizations like any organization folks have goals and objectives. You know every individual has a performance review. You still have to meet your marks. You're doing it in a way that is kind and compassionate, that is values driven, and I am just a believer that you can do both.

Mick Spiers: 32:48

You don't have to choose one over the other. Yeah, really good. What I'm hearing here is that in the not-for-profit world, many of the things that work in the corporate world still are needed and still work. So the engine that takes us to the mission, and the cash and the finances, et cetera, are not a dirty word. They're what's going to fuel the mission and the mission is going to fail if we don't look after those things. But the cash itself is not the mission. The impact is the mission. The cash is the fuel that's taking the car towards that mission. And I was interested to hear you saying you're still doing things like performance reviews and setting goals and all this kind of stuff. All of these things still work, it's just the end goal is a different level of impact. So let's unpack that a little bit. In your experience, like in the corporate world, we measure things on return on investment and shareholder returns and profit and earnings per share and all kinds of things. How do you measure impact in these not-for-profits, britt?

Britt Hogue: 33:46

So we use a tool a lot. It's actually one of the things that drew me to the nonprofit space, because I love a good framework, and this one is called a theory of change and it is a mechanism that we use to say, okay, if your vision you know you have a long term vision that's out there. It's going to take a while to get to it, but that's your anchor, you're always driving towards this mission of everyone should have an affordable place to live, right, that's really big. And your organization has its mission, which is how you, how your organization, is driving toward that vision. We can't alone achieve that. We're going to have to work alongside a lot of other nonprofits local government, maybe federal government, maybe companies to achieve housing affordability right, access to housing. And then you have your mission. Well, the way we do it perhaps is through, you know, building affordable housing units right, or doing offering a first-time home, ownership programs or whatever the things are. The theory of change is it's just an elegant way I love them so of saying okay, let's map backwards from that vision and figure out what are the things that we have to do and what are the results that we have to see that show that we are working, that we are actually achieving the outcomes that take us toward that vision, and that first it's kind of a conceptual high level. Then you get into more detail where you start to say, okay, these are the more qualitative things, this is what the program should look like, this is, these are the outcomes that we're looking for. Programs how many people do we need to serve to be able to achieve? You know, a certain number of you know housing stability for a particular geographic region, and when we have that, now we are in a place where there are people who can be self, you know who can self-sustain, and now we can offer different programs and so on and so forth. So you end up with, you know, it's just like any other kind of business plan that a company would put together. There has to be what is the business model, and then from that we can say, okay, well, every year we'll have different strategies that help us advance that model.

Britt Hogue: 36:12

Nonprofits operate around a business model called a theory of change. It's here's how we do, what we do to achieve that long-term, that mission, and there have to be numbers that go along with it and the way that you know there are some things are really hard to quantify. Sometimes we have to use proxies. You know it can be hard to kind of determine things like. You know, are people you know really better off than they were before If maybe people are changing? You know, are people you know really better off than they were before If maybe people are changing?

Britt Hogue: 36:43

You know you can't measure the same folks because in the city you know different people are moving around right, and so you can't necessarily do like a longitudinal study. But there are ways that you can say okay, is there more affordable housing available in this city? Are we seeing that people who couldn't afford to live here? Okay, is there more affordable housing available in this city? Are we seeing that people who couldn't afford to live here teachers, people who collect the garbage, people, you know, folks who maybe had to live outside of the city but work in the city are now able to live there? You know you can see those trends changing and those are the types of things that a lot of nonprofits are looking for to be able to say what we're doing is working and we want to do more of this, or vice versa, what we're doing is not working and we need to change our program. It's not seemed like a good program, but actually we're not seeing the results. It's time for us to change and take a different course.

Mick Spiers: 37:33

Yeah, really, really powerful, britt, and I think there's a lesson in that for all of us. So this theory of change and the things that were jumping into my mind were Stephen Covey's thought of start with the end in mind. So what is the end Then? Working backwards from there as to what would need to be true for that end to be met, it might be, I don't know, three things, five things, whatever it may be. And then how are we going to measure whether we're on track for those things to be true? And if we're not on track, we're going to have to do little pivots. We're going to like, if the numbers are telling us, no, it's going in the wrong direction, what's going to be our little course correction that gets the numbers going back in the right direction?

Mick Spiers: 38:13

So, end in mind, what would need to be true? How will we know whether we're on track for those things to be true? And the other powerful thing that you said is who do we need to collaborate with for that to be true? Because we might not have all the cards ourselves, there might be things that are out of our control. What other stakeholders, other non-profits, other for-profits that we need to work with for those things to be true? How does that sit with you?

Britt Hogue: 38:39

Yep, that's exactly right, and we can't be. Things are outside of our control. We also can't be good at everything. I think one thing that a lot of nonprofits struggle with is, you know, they're so close to the community that they want to solve all the community's needs, right, and so we're going to do this program, we're going to do that program, we're going to and sometimes our job is to come in and say, actually you're doing too many things. You're not. You could do more things really well if you did fewer, if you actually did fewer things. So focus on the things that you can be best at. You know that you can do the best. I mean this good to great right has this all over it. Where's your hedgehog? You know, doing those things of like. Let's really focus in on where we can have the greatest impact and then let's collaborate. Let's think about our ecosystem, say, you know well, this group over here can do this other part and that group can do this part. You know we can all work towards the same end.

Britt Hogue: 39:31

In mind this a little bit earlier, of like the transactional nature sometimes of any organization, I think businesses especially are incentivized to sometimes just look at the month or look at the quarter right. When is the next earnings report coming out? Let's make sure that looks good. And we kind of lost track of, like, the year and the next five years, because we're trying to constantly make people happy on a three-month time horizon. And what I love about the nonprofit space is that, while, yes, we have to make sure that quarterly we're hitting the numbers we need to keep the organization afloat, yes, we're going to have to report our annual numbers as well, because it's a public entity, right, it's a public charity. They have to report the same way companies do and say here's how the money was spent, and so you want to make sure that all that numbers work out to show that you've been responsible. But everything that they're doing is anchored in this vision. Right, that this mission really keeps you grounded in what is it really about.

Britt Hogue: 40:38

And so we don't lose ourselves as much in this sector, I believe. Don't lose ourselves in the you know the headwinds and the drifts that might take us this way or that way. We've really got to stay grounded on the things that are really important. And I'll just say, especially now, without getting too into the politics of things, especially now, when you know getting too into the politics of things, especially now when you know we have new ideas on things from DEI to how much should the government fund and all of those things.

Britt Hogue: 41:08

I'm seeing a lot of companies really struggle with their values, with like there's flip-flopping going on Things we said were important to us as a company we're suddenly rolling them back and as a consumer and certainly if I were an employee in one of those organizations I would be really confused. I am confused. These are brands that I thought I knew, that now I'm not sure I know them quite so well, because the things just two years ago that were important to you you have now just completely wiped out and we're seeing a lot less of that in the nonprofit space, because these organizations are anchored in something, they're anchored in their values and they're anchored in their mission and even when funding is becoming scarce, they are still trying to find a way to achieve that vision. They're just going to come up with different strategies, not changing who they are.

Mick Spiers: 42:07

That's very powerful and I think you're right In the not-for-profit space, the mission was the most important thing for them the whole way. So it's going to take a lot for them to walk away from that, because it was in their DNA as to why they existed in the first place. I'm quite confused about what's going to happen in corporate America in the current era as to will it expose companies that were, just, say, basically greenwashing or whatever the case may be, because the government of the day does not support this type of program. Let's just stick with that without getting too political. So what's going to happen with those companies?

Mick Spiers: 42:47

There's going to be some brit I'm going to hazard a guess and say some are just confused and scared and don't know what to do and therefore they're backing off on programs. And there's going to be others that never believed in the programs in the first place and they're doing mini dances, going, oh good, we don't have to do it anymore. And, to be frank, that's not where I'm going to spend my dollars as a consumer in a company that didn't believe it in the first place. It'll be with the ones that stay true to the course, but I'm going to give a little bit of leeway, that there's going to be confusion before things settle. How does that sit?

Britt Hogue: 43:22

with you, yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. There's a term that's being used now called rainbow hushing, and it speaks to kind of both things that you mentioned. One is there was rainbow washing, green washing, dei washing that was happening in the first place, right, never really bought into it, never really changed policies, just kind of threw it up on the website, did a press release and that was it. And so it's easy to roll it back if it was never a thing to begin with. And I think you're right, it's.

Britt Hogue: 43:50

You know, we now can say, oh, okay, well, they were. Now I know them, who they really are, and I can choose not to shop there or whatever. And then, and I, but I really feel for the organization and I feel for the people in those organizations, because there may have been people who went to work for that organization believing one thing that now is, you know, they're realizing, oh, I've worked here now for 18 months or three years and it's clear that this was actually not a value. But then you know, to your point, there are a lot of organizations and there are a lot of nonprofits actually also that are tangled up in this. What do I do? Because we do believe in those things, but we don't want to be a lightning rod. You know, I don't want to lose all my funding. I got to keep these programs going, so maybe I take equity off the website. It doesn't feel good, but maybe it's the right thing to do, so that we can actually keep doing work.

Mick Spiers: 44:43

It's going to be confusing times for a while. All right, I want to come back to humanized strategy for a bit, and just final chapter is to leave some actionable insights for the audience. So if we've got people listening to this, they're going. Yeah, our strategy is very numbers driven, it is very top down and it doesn't have the empathy, the people, the human nature in there. How do they start?

Britt Hogue: 45:08

Oh okay. So I think if you are already at a place where you're saying, yeah, I'm realizing that the way we've been doing things hasn't really worked, you know it's. It's gotten us a strategy, we have a strategic plan, but it's been hard to move it because half of the organization doesn't believe in it. They weren't a part of its creation and so it was kind of sold to them later and they actually aren't embracing it. We need to do it a different way. Or, yeah, it feels very numbers heavy and it doesn't feel like it has much empathy in the plan itself. It doesn't. We haven't actually engaged and brought in other ideas. Or it feels a lot like plans just the same plan being regurgitated. If you're already there, then that's great Cause. I think that's part, that's half. The battle is just to get to that point of saying, oh, maybe it's time for us to do it a little bit different. So kudos to you for even being open. And then I think the next thing is to really think about well, how can I open up this process? What might the process look like if we were to engage more folks in it? And I think for sometimes for leaders at the board table, at the executive table. Sometimes the reluctance to bring more people in is that then decision-making gets confusing and people are gonna ask for things that we might not be able to say yes to. So I think the first thing is to start opening up a conversation and talk to folks and say we want to do this process. We need to be clear about the way decisions will be made right. We want to get everyone's input into the process. We want to be able to co-create this as an organization. We want to maybe have an open session where we talk to some members of the community, maybe talk to some of our customers, maybe talk to some of our partners, and we want to find ways as a team, as a staff, to be able to let more people share in the development of this strategy and the design of how we will work going forward and the way the decisions will be made. Is we have a governance structure right? So here's how the process will work.

Britt Hogue: 47:18

I think, if you can, I think that gives people first of all. It gives, it's honest and it lets folks know how they're going to be able to participate in the process and you're not making promises that you won't be able to keep and folks are adults, right. I think people can usually say, oh okay, you know, that's great, I would love to be able to be part of the ideation stage. I understand then that it has to go to leadership, and they'll make the final call about what we can afford to do. You know what's you know won't cause a reputational risk to do right. Other people are going to have to lean in and then a decision will be made. I think it also puts senior leadership at ease that we're not going to get into a difficult place later where, you know, folks are actually unhappy about the outcome because they thought they were going to get one thing and now we have to do something else. So that's my long way of saying one.

Britt Hogue: 48:12

Really, you know, important starting point is to communicate about the process, be really open about how this is going to work, and then develop a process that you can live up to right. You can say, okay, well, we're going to go through developing this strategy a strategic planning process, whatever you want to call it and we have 12 months to do it or nine months to do it. We're going to spend the first three months just listening. We want to listen. We're going to do some, you know, a survey of our team. We're going to do some listening sessions with the community, we're going to whatever all the different things are Right, and at some point though, we're going to close the listening and the input input stage, and then the second three months we're going to go into.

Britt Hogue: 48:57

So what? Now we have to kind of develop. What are our priorities going to be? What goals do we set for ourselves? And then the third part will be let's think about what this implementation is going to look like, right, how do we start to put this into action? What kind of resources will we need? Will we need to change the organizational structure to make this go? Who will we collaborate with? All of those different things that kind of make it, make it bring it to life. And I think, if you can, just communication is so key, as you're, if you're going to be opening things up and welcoming other folks into the process. So that's the one thing, kind of hopefully, that's a helpful, practical tip on how you can humanize the development of a strategy and make it more of a co-creation, happy to share other things on, you know. Then, how do you do the other kind of human, you know, take care of the humans in the organization. But I'd love to hear you know, do you think that resonates? How do you, how do you think that?

Mick Spiers: 49:56

Yeah, it's really good, brett. There's a few things there that awareness was half the battle. So if you're already thinking this, you're, you're on your way. The communication that when you set out on this journey, have a clear communication with the people so they don't get jaded by a mismatch of expectations of what they thought it was going to be. And then the phases I'm hearing is the listening phase, the prioritization phase, and then the execution phase, or the planning to execute phase at least.

Mick Spiers: 50:27

And what you were saying there about you know, during that listening phase and this is where some of the communication comes in to begin with which is to set the expectation that we're going to hear from everyone and we're going to listen to you deeply, to listen to it with an open mind and open heart and open will to think about is this a good idea, is this the right one for us or not? That we might get a hundred ideas and we can only have the resources and we'll only do a good job if we only do five of those hundred. If we tried to do all hundred, we'll fail. So please be aware we're going to listen to you and we want you to feel heard and valued in this process, but your idea may not be the one that makes it to the top of the list. Please come on this journey with us. I'm going to say at the end of that process, when you get into that third phase, it's also really important that when you do finish the prioritization, when you communicate the ideas that have made it to the thing, you also need to be ready to explain the rationale of the ones that you picked. My experience, britt, is that people can live with a decision that didn't go their way if they understand the rationale behind the decision.

Britt Hogue: 51:46

Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. Often, when we come into organizations and trust has been eroded, folks are not happy. It's because they don't understand the why. Decisions have been made by leadership and no one has explained why we made that decision. No one explained why we closed down that program, why we're letting people go, why we had this whole listening phase of the strategic planning process and then nobody's ideas made it.

Britt Hogue: 52:14

Well, some ideas made it. Maybe your idea didn't make it, but some ideas did and I think that you know I love that you're noting this because sometimes folks, sometimes organizations, leaders, folks who are leading these processes, they do a good job of the communication at the front end and then the communication kind of dies off. You know we forget about it as we, as we get through to the end, and the end it's so important for what you the reason you just mentioned you've got to explain to how we came to these decisions so that folks can kind of say, okay, I get it and I'm still with you. You know I can. I may not have that, may not have been my idea, but I can live with this. You know I can support this all right, brilliant brit.

Mick Spiers: 52:55

So I'm going to summarize this for the audience and say if you want to start on on a humanized strategy, the most important thing you can do is start and then have these phases of listen, prioritize and execute, but make sure you're also communicating it to the people, otherwise you're going to confuse them along the way. On the second point, britt, around how do we do the human side of all this, making sure people feel cared for, et cetera. I'd love to have a chat to you about that and potentially we're drawing to a close for today's episode, but I'd love to have you back on the show and we could go deeper into this care, the wellbeing, the almost pastoral element of looking after the people in the organisation, because when you look after the people, they will look after the business. They will look after the business if they feel that they're cared for. So I'd love to have that conversation with you, perhaps on the show another time.

Britt Hogue: 53:50

Yeah, I'd love to.

Mick Spiers: 53:51

All right, so let's go to our rapid round. These are the same four questions we ask all of our guests, Britt. What's the one thing you know now, Britt Hoag, that you wish you knew when you were 20?

Britt Hogue: 54:02

You know, I feel like there are so many things, but there's one that I remember mentors sharing with me early in my career you know, 20,. I was still in college, but I was, I was, I was interning on wall street and was really lucky to have some good mentors and folks who were giving advice, who were saying you know, ask a lot of questions and don't be afraid to be you. You know, don't be like.

Britt Hogue: 54:30

It's hard when you're early in your career and you're a young person and you feel like I don't want to say the wrong thing or ask the stupid question or whatever. And now I am realizing that there are still so many things that I wish I had asked about that. I wish I had just offered that idea or spoke up in that conversation. And it's hard as a young person. But I think, if that's the one thing, that if I could go back and talk to my 20 year old self, it would be. Now's the time to really just lean into your ideas, your confidence. You know, have confidence that you can speak up, that you can ask that question and really engage, as opposed to, you know, maybe holding back because you're afraid of you know, how it might come across.

Mick Spiers: 55:23

Don't be afraid to be you and step into your confidence. I love it, britt. Okay, what's your favorite book?

Britt Hogue: 55:28

Okay, so I want to, if I may, give you my favorite author. I'm obsessed mildly obsessed with Percival Everett, and he's been writing amazing books for a long time, but the one that really got me hooked last year was a book called James, and so definitely look out, look up, james by Percival Everett, but he also has a book called Trees and a book called Telephone and they're just amazing, at least for me, the kind of book that you pick up and you almost want to sit and just read it all the way through in one go. It's really hard to put down.

Mick Spiers: 56:04

We definitely haven't had that one on the show. I'm going to look into it myself. All right, thank you. What's your favorite quote?

Britt Hogue: 56:11

All right, thank you. What's your favorite quote? Okay, so well. Shirley Chisholm, the first Black woman to run for president, said if they don't give you a seat at the table, bring a folding chair. And I love that because, especially now, women aren't often I say now because it's Women's History Month but we aren't always given a seat at the table, so sometimes you have to just kind of find a way to get in there. But for me the quote has another meaning, which is you don't always have to have a formal seat at the table so you can bring a folding chair. You can sit in the back of the room if you need to. If it's a conversation that you want to be a part of, if it's a conversation that you could just learn from, don't take yourself out of the conversation. Find a way to get in there, even if it's standing room only and you're just you're kind of in the back listening. Anything is useful, right To get yourself into a conversation.

Mick Spiers: 57:14

It's really powerful, Britt, and I love that. You also converted it then to hey, this is metaphorical, it's not just literally in a boardroom. You can do this in any setting a social setting, a team meeting, whatever. You can use that quote to drive you into action. Yeah, love it, All right. And finally, how do people find you? Britt can use that quote to drive you into action. Yeah, love it All right. And finally, how do people find you, Brett? There's going to be people that are really interested in the collective good, in humanized strategy. They might want to join you on the mission. They might want to take advantage of the services. How do they find you?

Britt Hogue: 57:46

Yeah, I would love to hear from folks. So we are at wwwthe-collective-goodcom, so the collective good with hyphens is the website I am at Brit B-R-I-T-T. At the collective goodcom. We're also most active on LinkedIn, so look me up there. I think I'm the only Brit Hoag on there, but certainly the only Brit Hoag plus the collective good you'll get to me and I look forward to continuing the conversation with folks.

Mick Spiers: 58:22

Thank you, Brit. I want to say, on behalf of your clients and the people that are impacted by your clients thank you for the work that you do. You're bringing great value into the world and multiplying the impact of these organizations that are very impact-driven. So thank you. On behalf of our audience, I'd like to say thank you for your time and for sharing your wisdom and insights today. It's been wonderful.

Britt Hogue: 58:46

Great, it's been my pleasure, thank you. Thank you for having me.

Mick Spiers: 58:50

Wow, what a powerful conversation. Britt Hogue reminds us that strategy isn't just about direction. It's about connection. Humanized strategy challenges us to bring empathy into our decisions, invite voices into the process and recognize that behind every metric is a human story, and her work with the Collective Good proves that strategy and social impact don't have to live in separate worlds. They can and should coexist. As you reflect on today's episode, ask yourself are your strategies serving the people who bring them to life? In the next episode, I'll be sharing my own reflections on what I took away from this conversation with Britt and my own thoughts about what works and what doesn't work in the world of strategy.

Mick Spiers: 59:43

Thank you for listening to the Leadership Project at mickspearscom. A huge call out to Faris Sadek for his video editing of all of our video content, and to all of the team at TLP Joanne goes on, gerald Calabo and my amazing wife, say Spears. I could not do this show without you. Don't forget to subscribe to the Leadership Project YouTube channel, where we bring you interesting videos each and every week, and you can follow us on social, particularly on LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram. Now, in the meantime, please do take care, look out for each other and join us on this journey, as we learn together and lead together.