255. Leadership Reimagined: Embracing the Power of 'We' with Kyle McDowell

Have you ever led a team where true connection felt out of reach? Kyle McDowell, once a top executive in Fortune 10 companies, had a powerful realization—his leadership was driven by fear, not respect. This moment sparked a transformation that led to his "Begin With We" philosophy: 10 principles focused on shifting from individual success to collective excellence.

Kyle shares a pivotal moment—alone in a hotel room, preparing to address 50 leaders—when he realized he needed a new approach. Principles like “We do the right thing always” and “We challenge each other” became the backbone of a more authentic, values-driven leadership style, centered on trust and vulnerability.

He explains how even small changes in language—like saying “our team” instead of “my team”—can reshape culture. His ABCs of teamwork are simple but powerful: Add value, Be valued, and Connect to purpose. When leaders meet these needs, teams thrive.

Kyle’s message is a call to break the cycle of toxic leadership and build something better. Whether you lead five people or five thousand, starting with “we” can change everything.

🌐 Connect with Kyle:
• Website: https://kylemcdowellinc.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylemcdowellinc/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kylemcdowellinc/

📚 You can purchase Kyle's book on Amazon:
• Begin With WE: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1544529902/

Chapters

• 0:27 Introducing Kyle McDowell and Begin With We
• 2:21 Kyle's Corporate Epiphany Moment
• 6:46 From Fear to Trust: Transforming Leadership
• 14:17 The Power of Consistent Principles
• 22:32 From "My Team" to "Our Team": Language Matters
• 31:16 The 10 We Principles Explained
• 43:51 Key Takeaways and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:01

Have you ever worked in a team where everyone seemed to be out for themselves? What would it take to shift from a culture of competition to a culture of collaboration, and what if the real key to excellence wasn't in strategy or systems, but in a simple shift from me to we? Today, I'm joined by the incredible Kyle McDowell you've heard of start with why Kyle is going to introduce you to his concept today. Begin with we. Kyle is on a mission to transform the way we lead by challenging the status quo and building cultures rooted in shared values, authenticity and courageous leadership. And it all starts with language. In this conversation, we explore how leaders can move beyond individual performers to create truly high performing United teams, and why doing the right thing, even when it's hard, is the cornerstone of lasting success. Hey everyone, and welcome back to The Leadership Project. I'm greatly honored today to be joined by Kyle McDowell. Kyle is an former executive with multiple fortune 10 organizations who's had an exceptional track record of leadership. He's also the best selling author of a book called Begin with We and you can probably tell that's going to be our focus today to unpack what does that mean. He's on a quest to help organizations to create cultures of excellence and to help leaders reignite their passion and their purpose. But it's all around this framework and 10 principles about we. So that's going to be what we unpack. So, Kyle, I want to get straight into this so without any further ado, tell us a little bit about that background of yours and what inspired you around these cultures of excellence, and begin with, we?

Kyle McDowell: 1:56

Yeah, you bet. And Mick, first of all, thank you for having me. Man, it's really it's an honor. You're doing really important work, right down to the name of the show, the leadership project. Because we're never like we're always a work in progress, even the best and most impactful leaders in the world, right? So I love that. It's a project, it's ongoing. That that struck me when I was first introduced to your show. So for me, I was very, very similar in so many that have spent any amount of time in the corporate world, and that is with each step in my career. And I was very lucky to lead 10s of 1000s of employees. I live massive organizations, as you mentioned, inside three fortune 10 firms, multi billion dollar P and L's. But as my level of let's call it influence or authority or scope, that's as that increased, the only thing that matched the level of increases was my level of apathy. I just grew really tired of the classic corporate kind of cliche, the command and control, the bang, the fist on the desk, which I was that leader for a couple of decades. I spent nearly 30 years in the corporate world, but I I reached this kind of inflection point where I don't know, you know, we can call it some kind of intervention, or maybe an epiphany, that I realized those around me that I was certain had tons of respect for me. They actually feared me, my way of leading actually alienated a number of people, including myself. And I stepped away for a moment. I'm going to get out of this corporate world for a moment and just kind of reassess what I want to do, my purpose and things like that. And I was called to a job for an opportunity to take a job within a couple of weeks that would have me lead about 15,000 people and really impactful, purpose driven work. And in the night before I took the role, and the night before I was to meet with the top 40 or 50 leaders of the organization, I was probably 60 days in, had this gut check moment in my hotel room. I'm like, first of all, I was terrified. I didn't know what I was going to say. I just knew that I needed to do if I wanted to feel differently, if I wanted to have an even greater impact and find fulfillment, all these things that I chased from day one. And by the way, I think we all do. We all enter the workforce with optimism. We want to make an impact. We want to find fulfillment. Want to make some money. I don't think that's I think everyone is kind of consistent in those wants, but over time, we lose a lot of that, and I wanted to reignite and connect with that. So I'm in my hotel room the night before. I'm like, All right, what am I gonna say to these guys? I hadn't met many of them. I'd only been with a company about 60 days. And I started typing, and I created this, these principles, and I don't know from where they came. There was no muse on my shoulder. There's these 10 sentences that did then and still do, begin with the word we. And I stepped out in front of those leaders the next morning, and I said, guys, let me be very, very direct. I expect every single one of you in this room follow and be held accountable to these principles. Because I. Want to make sure that, you know, I will do the same, and I want you to hold me accountable. And I had said those things in the past, but this time, I really meant it. I felt like if I wanted to get rid of the things that drove my unhappiness and the toxicity that I saw, I needed to be really overt in how I was going to lead this group, including what they can expect from me. So I walked through these 10 principles, and what happened over the course of the next couple of years changed my life. And I think it's safe to say at this point, it changed the live lives of a lot of other folks so much. So the group of leaders, my direct reports from that from that period of time, they were the ones that reached out to say, this should be a book. You need to get this out to the are you really about this is something that how authentic? Is this real? Is this real? Is this who you are? Because we've seen the transformation, and that transformation wasn't just business results, man, it was watching bosses transform into real leaders that genuinely cared about those around them, the development and growth of others. So that was so profound to me. And then, you know, the most humbling thing was them saying, you know, you might want to this in writing. And I wrote the book, and it became a USA Today and Wall Street Journal bestseller, and now I spend all my time traveling the country to evangelize the value of principle based leadership. Was specifically a we oriented paradigm, looking out for the we more so than myself.

Mick Spiers: 6:20

Well, congratulations on your success, Kyle, and I'm so glad that you had that epiphany. I have to say there were three words that you use that are ringing in my head as I listen to you. The words were fear, apathy and overt. So let me unpack that a little bit. So first of all, leading by fear. That is going to say the stereotypical Alpha style leadership that we saw in a lot of organizations. So you're not alone there in leading with fear. But if people are being led by fear, are they happy or are they unhappy? And then I'm hearing that the leader who is on the surface and to the exterior world being very successful was feeling apathy was also unhappy. So we've got people showing up to work with the best intentions to do their very best work, and we fall into these stereotypes of mimicking the behavior of leaders before us, because that's what we've seen. That's that would have been the role model you would have seen, Kyle. You start repeating it, and all it does is perpetuate leading by fear, which makes the people unhappy. And mind you, and people don't always recognize this by the way, Kyle, the leader that's doing the leading with fear, is also unhappy. So we got a bunch of people that are spending a 1/3 of their lives in this workplace, and none of them happy, and then the third word that I loved was over. You brought it to the surface. Instead of everyone hiding this and going, Oh, really unhappy. I'm really apathetic, I'm really struggling with all of this, you went, doesn't have to be this way. Let's have a conversation. How does that sit with you?

Kyle McDowell: 8:01

You know, in hindsight, it, it's where it put me in a position where I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, and my identity inside of the corporate world, my identity in this world, was defined by my identity in the corporate world. And I that didn't sit well. And still to this day I have regrets about that, because I didn't lead with authenticity, but you nailed it, Mick, I led in a way in which I was taught to lead. I mimicked what I saw. I tried to weed out the things that weren't necessarily as healthy and not as inspiring as I wanted to be. I'm sure I wasn't great at it. And the challenge for me today, though, is I've become so entrenched and committed to this message and the value and importance of we but I'm not. I'm still not naive to those that might hear the message, even read the book or see me speak and think, Oh, my company's not going to subscribe to that, or my boss won't subscribe to that, and getting people to understand, but more importantly, believe, there is a better way. Now you may not be in the organization that will embrace that better way or allow you to operate in that better way, which takes us to another choice. And the choice is, do I want to stay in this place or go do something differently. And for those that decide to not do something differently, and they just keep their head down. And this is the world in which I live, I have respect for that. I understand. We all have commitments, and sometimes the path to least resistance allows us to fulfill those commitments. Good on you. I have no I have no ill will towards that, but everything in life, and I love the way you started this, this question everything in life, not just our leadership journey. It starts with a choice. And I knew I needed to do something different if I wanted to experience something different. So I chose to lead differently. And to be very fair and honest about this, of those 40 or 50 people in the room, I would say only half of them bought in on. One, there was a quarter of the group that was kind of, we'll see, skeptical, but maybe optimistic, and then a quarter of the group was like, This guy is full of it. We've heard this before. We've seen the stark shirt, we've seen the shiny shoes. I don't believe it, and it took me a long time in some of those cases. And not, I didn't convert 100% but it did take me a while to earn that credibility and that trust, and that came via aligning my actions with those principles, being really consistent in the things I was espousing. You could see it in my behavior.

Mick Spiers: 10:32

Yeah, really interesting, Kyle, so a few things jumping into my mind when I hear you speak now the word identity, and I'm going to dive into some Jungian psychology here for a moment, but you're projecting yourself onto the world. But at that moment, a lot of what you're projecting is what you think people expect you to do. Yeah, you're being channeled by societal expectations, or what you think people expect of you, and that's the person that you start becoming, but where the shadow comes in, as Kyle young would call it, where the shadow comes in.

Kyle McDowell: 11:08

Mag jump in, right there, because that's a very important and that it is reinforced, because you can be very successful.

Mick Spiers: 11:15

Yes, exactly, yeah.

Kyle McDowell: 11:17

Quote, unquote, there, right? It's reinforced that this style is working. So I'm going to keep doing it.

Mick Spiers: 11:22

You start getting applauded, so you start repeating it. Go, oh, okay, all right, it's working. So you start getting applauded and recognized for it. So you keep on doing it. But the longer you keep doing it, the further you've drifted away from your true self, your authentic self. Really powerful. The next part I'm not surprised to hear this either, is your stats with almost exactly, you know, the early adopters versus the messy middle versus the laggards. But the reason those laggards are there and you nailed this, is because they've heard it before. Oh yeah, yeah, here we go. But what speaks louder than your words is your actions. Tell us what happens next day. Stand up on the stage, and we'll get to the principles later. You start speaking your values and saying, No, there's a better way, and this is the way I want to do it. But not everyone sold in on that day one. How do you what happens next in the days after?

Kyle McDowell: 12:19

Yeah, yeah. That's when the real work began. And this is where I see this. This this kind of inflection point, in this moment when the leader, the boss, however you want to define them, I guess, depending on what they are to you, where your actions and your words must align, or everything you just said, in my case, these 10 Weis that I, that I walked the team through is a fraud and I'm a hypocrite. So it was really important for me to not be, to not force this. You know, I didn't want to be words on a wall. I didn't want to be a mission statement or values that no one, frankly, can recite on the team, and certainly that we don't operate in accordance with those words on the wall. So I didn't push it. I was committed to living it every day, every interaction of every day. Was I perfect at it? Absolutely not. But what I was really adamant about was using the principles by word in my daily vernacular. It's like, Mick, let's just pretend you're on the team and you're struggling with something. One of the principles is we challenge each other, and the challenge must be grounded in data or experience. But when I approach you and I say, hey, Mick, man, we challenge each other, right? You've already subscribed to the team. You've already subscribed to being part of this team. And the 10 ways are there. Are there are our identity. They are who we they how we operate. It's kind of our rules or our Code of Conduct within so the more I would reaffirm those principles and using them my daily vernacular dialog, it became kind of obvious this guy is living he's living these principles. He's not just forcing them on us, and he's not and what happened, man was so beautiful. So I had 11 offices around the country, and I would visit each office on a monthly basis, one per month I would and every single month I would be, in some cases, overwhelmed, but always pleasantly surprised when I would see 10 weeks signage I would see post its where people were giving each other, we kind of kudos, or atta boys or atta girls, and then, without my urging, there were T shirts and rubber bracelets. I still wear the same we challenge each other. Rubber bracelet what seven or eight years later, had more made, and the 10 we awards were launched twice a year, if you're caught or observe living any one of these principles, and they became part of that organization's performance appraisal criteria. But what happened immediately after sharing those principles, there's one example that still highlights to me, the importance of what we're talking about. So there was a fella on the team. He knows I tell this story and use his name is his name's Mick. He was honest enough that evening at dinner to share that he didn't he thought I was full of it, so much so that I made these. Principles, or I stole these principles from somewhere on the internet, or somebody else had created them. So he Googled to see if there was anything on the 10 reason Kyle McDowell, and that at that point there was none. I was still deep in corporate. And then he said, I like the presentation so much. I want to share it with my team. Can you send me the PowerPoint? I said, Sure, that's great, man. Go for it. And I sent him the PowerPoint, and he admitted he only wanted the PowerPoint because he wanted to check the file properties to see if I indeed created the presentation or I'd gotten it from somewhere else. Fast forward, seven years later. Nick is a dear friend of mine. We still have occasional check ins and one on ones, just to kind of see how each other's is doing. And I just think that's a testament to the connection. So my old, the old Kyle, would have reacted kind of adversely that this guy is he was dishonest with me. Uh, he's only kind of pandering to the new boss by saying how great he thinks this stuff is. And I would have taken that personally, which part of my evolution has as and I'm proud to say that I'm less connected to the ego of needing and its association with needing to be right, needing to be the smartest person in the room, needing to have the last word, to have the most expansive vocabulary, to be the most impressive person I can be. I've worked really hard at setting that aside, because with that that I've created space for others to have that shine instead of me, which only benefit stands to benefit the whole team.

Mick Spiers: 16:28

There's many powerful things in there, Kyle, thanks for sharing that story. To me, It's a story of trust, and when I listened to you, and there was mistrust there from Nick but where the mistrust comes from, is from a I'm going to say history without unpacking his life, a history of executives where the actions didn't match the words. So these values and principles that you speak of, which you've cultivated your own, they can't be just on the office wall plaque. They need to be lived and it needs to be seen in the actions. And if Nick has seen a bunch of leaders before you that would say wonderful things when they're on stage, but their actions were the opposite. That's where that mistrust comes from. And where do you rebuild the trust you show that you are living it. And what I heard in your story when you're going around in the very language that you're using with people like, hey, we challenge each other, right? You started with role modeling. Hey, these are not just 10 statements. I dreamt up. We're going to live these. And we're going to use them as our credo. We're going to use them as our you use the word code of conduct. We're going to refer to them every day in our conversations. And then by role modeling, that what I heard when you started to go around the offices is what other people started doing, it too. Now we're living the values, and we're congruent with those values, and now trust rebuilds. Howdoes that sit with you?

Kyle McDowell: 17:56

Beautifully said, and I believe most impactful of leaders understand trust is the foundation, right? I ain't gonna follow you if I don't trust you. And to me, I boil down the very complex topic of trust, because it's complex. I boil it down to this. It's a simple equation. I think authenticity plus relatability equals trust. And you kind of alluded to that it's in the relatability side of that is what you see, is what you get. My actions align with my words. And I can understand why you might be skeptical of this, or I can understand why your work might be compromised or sliding because you have a sick child or an aging parent like relating to your life experiences tells you that I'm human and we don't. When we don't do that, we create this air of inauthenticity, and it's hard to trust and then follow but, but that relatability connected with the authenticity I am, who I say I am, I behave the way that I'm telling you I'm going to babe. You can count on the consistency of my behavior. For the most part, I'm authentic and I'm relatable. Those two things form a bond, and I now trust you, that's how I try to live. Unfortunately, I really only led that way or behaved that way, mostly in my personal life, and then when I developed these principles, and this is probably the most beautiful unintended byproduct that I am most excited about over the last two years since the book came out, is the impact these principles have had on my own personal life, but from at this point now 1000s of readers. Mick, when I wrote the book, I said, Man, I told my wife, if I sell 1000 copies, I'll be over the moon. Because, you know, you're an author, it's selling books is not easy, and you don't get rich selling books. I've sold, we have sold just shy of 30,000 copies. Now, I hear from readers about about how they have received the principles, the impact that they may or may not be having on their work lives, but the impact they are certainly having on their personal lives. This is the most profound and humbling impact that I could have ever guessed or imagined from this book.

Mick Spiers: 20:05

So I was going to say congratulations on the success, but I'm going to say congratulations on the impact. That's the word there. And so you are impacting so many people's lives, and you and you're paying it forward. You've had the epiphany. You're now paying it forward to others to show them that there is a different way. The other thing that you said before is, and you've said this a few times, actually, that you didn't use these exact words, but you're not going to also get it right every day, but that's also part of being humble and vulnerable to show Hey, these are the values I strive to. I won't get it right every day, but this is what I'll always try. I'm always going to try and live these values for you and with you. I think that was really powerful as well.

Kyle McDowell: 20:52

That's right. And you know, you know what tends to happen Mick is kind of cool, like, especially, so I connected really quickly with my direct reports. When we have a team of 15,000 it's really hard to get to know everybody. Obviously, especially when you're geographically kind of spread apart. I was really lucky in that I was able to connect with my six or seven direct reports, most of them pretty early on. But what happens is, when you start to use that there's this, it happens in every corporate environment when the boss or leader, depending on who they are, uses the same cliches over and over again, uses the same dialog, and they kind of reach into this bag of cliche type words the team ultimately starts to repeat it. The beauty in that is if you say things and talk in a way that inspires, motivates and connects and bonds those around you. They'll do that as well. They'll start so one of my favorite examples is we were, this is many years ago, but there was a woman on my team couldn't respect her more love her. Her name is Lori. We had an issue with a pay a pay issue where many of our team members, long story short, but many of our team members were in a position where were in a position where we it was over a holiday thing. It was a weird deal. We had an opportunity to not pay them and get away with it. It wasn't illegal. It wasn't we would have no repercussions other than a black eye because we were beating bad actors. And Lori came to me and said, I just need you to know. She led about 3000 people at the time. She said, I need you to know. Need you to know that we have this problem. Think I have a solution, and I know what you're going to say. And I go, Okay, what am I going to say? She goes, we do the right thing always. It's the first principle of the 10 ways. And I go, it was the conversation was over in about 30 seconds. The point of sharing that story is when we align on those expected behaviors and we call people out when they don't live them, but more importantly, probably praise them and acknowledge when they are living them, it happens over and over again, and it becomes almost a second language to the team.

Mick Spiers: 22:55

So what I'm hearing here is the consistency, the consistency and then it becomes some predictability, but predictability in a good way. So the consistency of message? Yeah, I think we sometimes shy away from that, but there's a great power in that, that if you don't repeat the message and live the values, so it's repeating the message, living the values all the time, it's not going to stick right, but you've got to you're going to have a choice there. We spoke about choice before. Do you want that to be a virtuous choice, that everyone's repeating the behaviors that you want them to repeat? Or do you want it to be something else? So if you're true to your values and they're the right values, and you're repeating those values consistently, there's nothing wrong with that and living by them. Yes, people are going to start repeating what the boss says. So think about the great power that comes with that. People are going to repeat what the boss consistently. You call them cliches before, but that consistency of message, people are going to repeat those what do you want them to repeat? Do you want it to be a good thing that's aligned with the values that you're trying to espouse? Or do you want it to be some disastrous, toxic kind of alpha style that you want them to repeat the same thing that we started with you? Kyle, that you repeated and mimic the behavior of leaders before you the next generation is going to repeat your behaviors, Kyle, there's a great power in that and a great responsibility, in that.

Kyle McDowell: 24:22

Great responsibility. And I actually approach it as an obligation. It is my not as a not as a nerd in corporate America, but as someone that cares about his fellow human. And I get it man, sometimes across, I think it's so common, unfortunately, for people to separate the goodness inside of them as a person outside of work versus how they are supposed to have an act inside of work. And they think that that needs to be two different filters and two different criteria. And I just in other words, if I'm going to help somebody outside of work, shouldn't it be in my nature to also do it in. Side. I mean, we're tribal by nature. You and I are separated by 1000s of miles in different continents, but we're aligning on some really cool things. Here, you're helping me promote the message. I'm hopefully helping you grow your following in the podcast and getting your important message out. Those are obligations, in my mind, not just responsibilities, and it's a choice whether or not you want to take that obligation. And for those that choose not to, I think you're short changing yourself. You're short selling your opportunity.

Mick Spiers: 25:27

Yeah, really powerful. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm going to say also, when that leader came to you, and even before they spoke, they said, I know what you're going to say, that predictability, that must have been a bit of a proud moment, because what then came out of the mouth is we always do the right thing. We do the right thing, always right. So that's, that's when it's landed, when people actually don't need Kyle anymore, because we know what he would say, even if he was, even if he was in the room, that's the goal. That's when you've had a great impact.

Kyle McDowell: 26:01

That's the goal.

Mick Spiers: 26:02

Yeah, really powerful.

Kyle McDowell: 26:04

And you probably caught. You're an astute listener, so you probably caught when I said a woman I used to work with, and then I inserted, I love her, because I do. I love that human Lori is a great person who we've connected and we never would have had if I was the boss of the Kyle of old, I would have been open to the relationship that we ended up forging. And what a blessing, man. How cool is that? And I just feel like I lost those opportunities in the first 20 years. I'm trying to make up for those now.

Mick Spiers: 26:31

Yeah, very good. All right, so I want to come back a little bit to your identity, and then this is going to take us towards the word we so part of your identity you said before that what you're projecting on the world about always having to be right and not necessarily being open to things. The Alpha style leader is prone to words like I and you, but all of your statements start with we. Tell us about the power of the word we? Why does it begin with we?

Kyle McDowell: 27:05

Our words, especially those in any kind of position of authority. You've probably noticed me differentiating at times between boss and leader, because they're clearly not the same thing. But when you're in any type of influential or position of authority, people, your words matter. Your words matter a whole hell of a lot. And I just remember being in rooms with my boss or other people's boss, and they say, you know, my team did this, or my team did that, or he reports, not he reports to me, but he's Mick is part of my team. Why is it your team? Why isn't it our team? And when you say my team did this, why isn't it the team or we did this? It makes me, it made me in still would today. Made me feel like a possession, like I wasn't a contributing member to this thing. This thing owned me and I was giving it because I had to. It's a very nuanced thing, but it's powerful. And I just don't think, by the way, I don't think anybody wants to be managed. Nobody. When you're a manager, you think you're supposed to manage people. You're really supposed to manage the process, the outcomes, setting the expectations, in terms of the KPIs, it's leadership that brings out the behavior that delivers on those things. Nobody wants to be managed. We want we all want to be led. So I just felt like this possessive thing that came from, you know, my team did this, and just people using it as if the team, those humans on their in their organization, or to whom they were fortunate enough to have an influence on or four is a very slippery slope, and the first time one of us feels like we're we're a possession. I think it's a slippery slope in that you may never win somebody back. Never mind the whole entire, by the way, Coronavirus conversation of giving credit where credit's due. I think that's connected. Obviously there's this notion that there's only so much shine to go around. And I have learned, and I am a walking Testament, that the more you shine that light on somebody else, that light clearly reflects on you. If they're successful, you're successful. If the team is successful, by definition, the leader is successful. So those, those words, matter a lot to me.

Mick Spiers: 29:17

So that's a an important lesson if you're listening to this now, listen to what Kyle is saying. This is a pivot point that most leaders eventually find, but it takes a while, so this might be an accelerated for you. A lot of, I'm going to say new leaders, Kyle or early to mid in their career, they're always trying to prove themselves, and therefore, there's a lot of I language or my team, you know that kind of language comes comes in. It takes a while to realize that actually shining a lot on someone else reflects on you. It takes a while to realize that one for sure, the other part is getting down to remember that they're human beings too. They also have a sense of. Self. They have their own identity. They don't want to be treated like a possession. They want to be seen, heard and valued. They want to know that they matter. They individually and collectively, matter. They want to feel like they're part of something important and part of something bigger than themselves that they're contributing to. So your choice of language here, it's going to either be an inclusive and and multiplying choice of language, or it's going to be a diminishing choice of language that's going to get them to back off and not bring their full energy to work. How does that sit with you?

Kyle McDowell: 30:36

Beautifully said. And I think a lot about this, this cycle that you and I have touched on a couple of times. You know, I kind of repeat what I see. If I had a bad leader, I become a bad leader, a bad boss, become a so I have kind of distilled it down to what I call the ABCs of being on a team, or the employee values chain, however you want to frame, but it's always ABC for me, every single person on the planet, of course, with some exception, you know, that is, I don't want to over generalize, but with some exception, we want to add value. That's the A I want to add value. The B is, I want to be valued. I don't just want to come to work and contribute and give my best without a recognition of what I'm doing. That recognition comes in many forms. Doesn't have to be just money, but money is a big one. And then C is, I want to connect the work that I'm doing with the delight that is delivered via that product or service, or the WoW or the however you want to frame it, but I want to be connected to what I'm doing. I want to connect what I'm doing to those who experience and benefit from what I'm doing. And that's hard in some gigs. That's hard in some in some roles, because, you know, my entire career was spent mainly in back office operations. So it's hard, necessarily, it's hard to get someone who who has a widget producing job that they never interact with a consumer or a customer. It's hard to make that connection, which really requires you to be an even more inspiring leader. But that connection. And think about that man, if you, if you make a beautiful painting and you sell it to a friend or even just a stranger, because it moves them, that connectivity that you just formed is the end of that equation. Add value, be valued, and connect the value, I think, is the goal for all leaders to remind themselves of that and then enable that and those they lead.

Mick Spiers: 32:22

That's another great takeaway for everyone right now. Colin and the exercise I want people to do listening to Kyle, have a think about what you want in the workplace. You want to add value. You want to be valued. You want to connect that value to something meaningful, something that has some kind of purpose and impact. Now turn around and project that to your team. What do they all individually want? They want to add value. They want to be valued. They want to connect what they're doing to some kind of value that has some kind of meaning and impact. Guess what? That's your job. That's your job to help them.

Kyle McDowell: 32:58

There's your relatability.

Mick Spiers: 33:00

Yeah, absolutely. Now you've got the relatability and the connection between you, but that's your job, that it's your job to create the environment where they can add value, where they feel that they're being valued, and that they connect the value of what they're doing, even if it's seems like a little micro task of a spreadsheet, they want to know that I'm not just doing this spreadsheet, because the boss told me to have it done by Thursday at three o'clock. They wanted to know that it means something, that it connects to something that made it different somewhere. That's your job.

Kyle McDowell: 33:34

And I so sometimes when I get on this track, so it's so beautiful, well said, man. And sometimes I get on this kind of thought track, and occasionally I'll get an eye roll, or I'll be I'll see someone in the audience, and you could tell it just doesn't connect with them. And I understand that, but I am convinced, if I'm managing a coffee shop, if I am an attendant at a convenience store, my position and my title or my quote, unquote importance inside the organization does not limit my ability to say, Hey, thanks for Mick, I hope you enjoyed this coffee. Here's a smile. You know, you give it with a smile. Or, you know, hope your day goes well. Hopefully this caffeine gives you the jolt you need, whatever it takes. Or is most appropriate, I think, or I know so many of us look at our jobs as just a job and not a career or an opportunity to help yourself or others. And I get that I've been there. I understand that I think our challenge for all, the challenge for all of us, is to get the most out of each of those steps, those jobs that help put us in a position to land in the career that we want. But I just deny the I deny this notion that unless I'm a leader of a big company, or I lead a lot of people, or I have an important title with a fancy office, I can't have an impact on others. I just don't buy that any longer.

Mick Spiers: 34:52

Yeah, so I'm going to share a story back with you now. This comes from Zach Mercurio, the author of the invisible leader. He's a previous guest on the show, and I'm going to show a power that you can find meaningful purpose. I'm going to say in any job, someone will prove me wrong at some point. So he studies purpose. That's what he does. And he does these interviews with leaders and all kinds of people. This one day, he was interviewing the janitor at the university, and asked the janitor, so what is it that you do? And her answer just blew his mind. I ensure that the students at this school to not get sick so they go on and change the world. She didn't say, I clean the toilets, I mop the floors, I do the dishes, I ensure the students that they see at this school do not get sick so they go on to trans Well, if you look carefully about how you're impacting other human beings in the work that you do, what you're enabling them to go on and do, it could be the connection that you spoke about before that by doing this, I'm enabling this, and Then that's impactful in this way. I think you can do it in any job, whether it's barista, through to janitor, through to CEO, you can find a purpose. If you look carefully.

Unknown: 36:12

Can you can't. Is Costco a thing in Australia?

Mick Spiers: 36:16

Yes, it is. Yeah, yeah.

Kyle McDowell: 36:18

Do you see who their their new CEO is? Man he started, like, 30 something years ago with Costco, the then Costco, whatever it's called, as a forklift driver, as a forklift driver, you know? So I just you know, you we subscribe to what the world tells us we're supposed to be doing. And you said that in a very beautiful way earlier, like I was leading in a way that I had been taught, whether I realized it or not, I was just replicating and playing it forward. And the benefit of that kind of psychology is the opposite can also be true. If I want to add value and I want to contribute positively, not just to my work and my team, but the world is a choice. It's a choice. And the way she replied is, is really, is really powerful. Now the challenge, I think, Mick, is when someone on the team has that paradigm and they're committed to that way of behaving, in the way of living. You said it earlier, and I'll just kind of repeat it in a paraphrases. It's our obligation to continue to help that behavior continue to inspire that person to continue to live and operate and work inside of our team in that way and not lose sight of that thing, because it happens, right? We're all human. And there are days when I go into the office and I just don't have the juice I wish I had, and I got to remind myself of a few things. I have this internal dialog I always go through, and it usually includes you signed up for this not, oh, it's not. You don't choose when you get to be a leader, because leaders, not leadership, is not easy, but getting folks to a point where they believe that they're in those ABCs and they're connecting that value and keeping them there is a really tough thing, and requires a daily commitment from the leader as well.

Mick Spiers: 38:01

Yeah, I'm going to say daily commitment and a daily intention. So you got to show up as a leader with intention. That that's what you're going to do. Think about the leader, think about the leader you want to be, or the leader that you would like to follow, and start intentionally showing up with those values and those behaviors. And it is a great responsibility. People are spending up to 1/3 of their life with you. It's your responsibility to help them find themselves and to help them have a good time not be in a toxic environment where they go home, you know, grumbling and moaning and taking that into their home life. It's a it's a great responsibility, so we need to take it very carefully. All right, Kyle, I want to give you a platform here to talk about the ways you can either share all 10 principles with us, if you like, or tell us your favorites of your we principles that you instilled in that organization, what still resonates with you today.

Kyle McDowell: 39:00

Yeah, I'd love to. And thank you for the opportunity. And before I right, before jumping into that, I just, I must issue two caveats. The first is the 10 we's and I'm the and I admit this freely, they're incredibly simple. They're incredibly simple. But simple is not easy. We know if we want to lose weight, we got to reduce calories and burn more calories get active. Incredibly simple, but not easy. The other caveat is, as I and I'll share a few, as many as you like, but the other caveat, or thought I would, I would like your audience to think about, is framing these principles, these 10 ways, not just as a work, only leadership, only thing framing them as how can this impact my life, improve and impact my relationships, give me greater fulfillment in whatever it is that I do, because I've found and I went through this transition by the way, I lived these principles for many years, inside of my work life, but I didn't outside. And when I realized what a hypocrite I was being, started to live them. A level of fulfillment and presence in each moment is dramatically increased. So with that said, I'll give you the first and it's, I think I mentioned it earlier, but it is the foundation that's we do the right thing always, and then they just they grow from there. We lead by example. We say what we're going to do, and then we do it. We take action, we own our mistakes, we pick each other up. We measure ourselves by outcomes, not activity. We challenge each other. We embrace challenge and we obsess over details. My favorite of them all, and light years head and shoulders, more difficult for folks to get behind and live consistently is we number eight as we challenge each other in most environments, boss issues challenges, and that's just the way it is. In a high functioning culture where we is embraced and the best ideas of real meritocracy exists, challenges go in every direction, the boss to the team, the team to the boss, peer to peer, on side the team if you're not pulling your weight for this team, I think there's an obligation to call someone out for that. Now, challenges must be grounded in either data or experience. I can't just give you my opinion and say you should change because I said so the data or experience will do that for me. And of course, there's chaos in the on the team. If we don't subscribe to We number nine as well. We embrace challenge. But that was admittedly tough for me, and it is tough for a lot of folks who try to embrace these principles and try to incorporate them into their organization. Why? Because we've touched on this a couple of times already. I gotta be right. You're challenging me. Threatens my authority. By authority, we should insert ego, and it might minimize my level of effectiveness or impact on this team. And life gets so much easier when the best ideas come from some other come from other people, and we get the best ideas, but you won't get them unless you encourage those challenges. And that's the one I think has the greatest impact, but also the toughest for folks to grasp.

Mick Spiers: 41:58

Yeah, really good. I love that we challenge each other. It is going to be the most challenging, sorry to say that, but because of the equation of fear and courage that's going to happen there, so that one's going to take time to build but if you do it the right way, you will build it. The other thing is, when you do get to that level of diversity of thought and bringing everyone, bringing their best ideas to the table. This is when we can co create something much bigger than any of us could have individually done, and we're holding space for each other, and we challenge each other directly and care personally, as Kim Scott would put it, this is when we can co create something much bigger than any of us individually could have done, regardless of how smart the boss thinks they are, we are smarter together. Yeah, very good.

Kyle McDowell: 42:46

It's just math.

Mick Spiers: 42:48

It's exactly good one at the

Kyle McDowell: 42:51

End of the day. I think it's just math. You know, in America, we have American football, and an NFL Coach has a 50 leads a 53 man roster. There's a reason there's an offensive coordinator, a defensive coordinator, an offensive like because there's no one. There's no way that one person can have the greatest level of impact humanly possible with a group of people, without others contributing. So to me, it's just a math equation.

Mick Spiers: 43:16

All right. Excellent, yeah, I'm gonna reflect some of the lessons I'm taking away from today, Kyle and I'm doing it for myself and I'm doing it for the audience at the same time. So the key thing here is stop mimicking the behavior of leaders before you, particularly if it was a leadership style you didn't even like yourself. You didn't like it. Why are you repeating it onto other human beings? Okay, get back to your true self. Think about your values. What do you value? What do you want to see happen if you were the person following you? What would you like to experience with that there's a power in language. So listen to Kyle in the language that he uses, and particularly the power of the language of the word we, instead of I and you. Then when we have these values, we broadcast them, and it's okay to be repeating that message multiple times. And then the next most important thing is that we live the values we live, and we reinforce the values in in everything we do. And it becomes infectious. It becomes infectious when you do it in this way. Now hear these words. You need to find your values. Don't just stand up on the stage tomorrow and go, Hey everyone. I've got these 10 ways. That's Kyle. Don't be Kyle. Be you find your values and get out there and be true to yourself and share those with the team from there, remember, your job is create an environment where other people can do their very best work, where they can add value, where they can be valued, and where they can connect the value of what they do to something bigger and more meaningful, so that they can go home at the end of the day feeling proud that they did. Something important. All right. Kyle, this has been a a wonderful conversation. I've absolutely loved it. I'd like us to now go to our Rapid Round. These are the same four questions we ask all of I guess. So what's the one thing you know now, Kyle Mcdowell, that you wish you knew when you were 20?

Kyle McDowell: 45:18

Don't need to have all the answers. Don't need to have all the answers to be an impactful leader. I'll connect that to a you know, the tired, very tired cliche, fake it till you make it. I did that. Had a little bit of success, alienated people and myself along the way. So it's not the answer. It's be authentic, be yourself and I you don't have to be perfect to be impactful.

Mick Spiers: 45:42

Yeah, well said, All right, as a best selling author yourself, what is your favorite book?

Kyle McDowell: 45:47

Oh, man, favorite book ever. Oof, I would go with the Power of Now, by Eckhart Tolle, you familiar? Yes, I am, yeah, yeah, great one. And I must give a quick plug, because I'm also, I just, I'm about halfway done with Rick Rubin's book, creative act, the art of being. I always get the title wrong. Okay, it's a more hip version. I've come to the conclusion of the power of now. It's from Rick Rubin, the famous producers. Really great read.

Mick Spiers: 46:19

Yeah, very good. Okay. What's your favorite quote?

Kyle McDowell: 46:22

Oh, my mother, who was a very important influence in my life, clearly, as so many probably of your audience, who we lost a dozen or so years ago to cancer, would always say, tough times never last. Tough people do.

Mick Spiers: 46:37

Yeah, that's a really good one. I can see the emotion you saying out that loud. I can see the emotion coming through as well.

Kyle McDowell: 46:46

Real, yeah, yeah. That's never happened before, by the way. Nice job, host. It's never happened before.

Mick Spiers: 46:52

It's okay, it's okay, it's you're human and you're being human, right? So now tell me call. There's going to be people listening to this, going war. This is amazing. They're going to be interested in either finding the book begin with we or booking you to come and help their organizations find their culture of excellence, or keynote speaking, etc. How do people find you Kyle?

Kyle McDowell: 47:15

Yeah, thank you. And again, thank you for the opportunity to be with you today. Thank you for the opportunity to share these communication platforms that I'm on. And you know, I'm essentially on every social media platform. It's @Kyle McDowell Inc. My website is also kylemcDowellinc.com, the book is available wherever books are sold, wherever you buy books. The audio versions out there that I narrated, ebook print obviously harden hardcover and paper bag folks typically find it easiest on Amazon, but it's essentially everywhere. And again, I'm really grateful for the opportunity to share the message today.

Mick Spiers: 47:50

Well, thank you, Kyle, and thank you for your impact. You mentioned about 30,000 copies before I'm going to share something. I'm going to tell you that of those 30,000 people, guess what? They do. They also pay it forward, they share it with others. I hope, that's my hope. And they don't just impact their own lives. That's 30,000 leaders that are then turning around and realizing that there's a better way. So they're impacting their organizations and their team. So it's a big multiplication effect. So thank you for your impact on the world, and you paying it forward for what you've discovered, and then helping others to do the same. And then thank you for your the gift of your time today and your your wisdom. I feel richer for having this conversation. I know the audience will as well. Thank you.

Kyle McDowell: 48:34

My pleasure. Thank you, Mick.

Mick Spiers: 48:37

What a powerful conversation with Kyle, sharing so openly his experience of that turning point in his career, and how he brought it all together. If you're a leader who's tired of toxic culture, misaligned values and people just going through the motions, Kyle's message is your wake up call. Leadership isn't about ego or authority. It's about example. It's about integrity, and above all, it's about we. In the next episode, it's going to be a solo cast where I reflect on his powerful concept of begin with we and I will share my personal experiences of a me culture versus a we culture and how it shaped the way I lead today. Thank you for listening to The Leadership Project mickspiers.com a huge call out to Faris Sedek for his video editing of all of our video content and to all of the team at TLP. Joan Gozon, Gerald Calibo and my amazing wife Sei Spiers, I could not do this show without you. Don't forget to subscribe to The Leadership Project YouTube channel, where we bring you interesting videos each and every week, and you can follow us on social, particularly on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. Now in the meantime, please do take care, look out for each other and join us on this journey. Me as we learn together and lead together.