333. The Power of Storytelling: Building Trust, Influence, and Leadership with Robert Kennedy III

You can have the right strategy, the right numbers, and the cleanest slide deck in the world and still fail to move anyone. That gap is not about intelligence or effort. It is about meaning. I sit down with Robert Kennedy III (RK3), keynote speaker and communication strategist, to talk about storytelling as a leadership skill that cuts through noise and turns information into understanding.

We unpack one of the biggest myths holding people back: “I’m not a storyteller.” Robert explains why that is often an identity story, not a talent issue, and how choosing a new agreement with yourself changes what you attempt and what you avoid. We also dig into public speaking fear and nervous energy, including Robert’s unforgettable line about not getting rid of the butterflies but getting them to fly in formation, plus the mindset shift that turns anxiety into excitement.

Then we get practical. Robert shares his Moment, Meaning, Message framework for business storytelling and leadership communication. We explore how ordinary moments can become powerful stories, why relatability beats drama, and how stories create vivid mental images, emotional connection, and trust in a way data rarely can. You’ll also learn what a signature story is, how to find yours, and when personal stories build credibility better than third-party examples.

If you want to become a clearer communicator, a stronger leader, and a more persuasive speaker, listen now, then subscribe, share this with a colleague, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

🌐 Connect with Robert :
• Website: https://robertkennedy3.me/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertkennedy3/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robertkennedy3

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:01

Have you ever had something important to say, but felt your message didn't quite land? Have you ever used more data, more facts, more slides, or more explanation, only to realize that people still were not moved into action? And have you ever told yourself, "I'm just not a storyteller". Well, today I'm joined by Robert Kennedy III, also known as RK3. Robert is a keynote speaker, trainer, communication strategist, and storytelling expert. He helps leaders communicate with greater confidence, greater clarity, and greater connection. In this conversation, Robert helps us see that storytelling is not about performance or theatrics. It is about meaning. It is about helping people understand why something matters. One of Robert's practical frameworks is moment, meaning, and message. What was the moment? What meaning did you take from it? And what message could help someone else? So, as you listen today, I invite you to think about the stories you already carry, and how they could help you connect, influence, and lead. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to The Leadership Project. I have a special treat for you today. I'm joined by Robert Kennedy III. Robert dreams of a world where people are no longer afraid to confidently tell their stories. He's the founder of an organization called Kinetic Communications, a keynote speaker, and a communication expert that helps people just like you to unlock the power of storytelling. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. We're going to be talking about storytelling. What is it? Why does it work? And how can we use it in a leadership session? Leadership is a communication job, and and we need our communication to cut through. And storytelling is the answer on how that can be, but I know that many of you have limiting beliefs about what it means to be a storyteller. So we're going to talk to an expert today to help us get unstuck and help us to unlock this power of storytelling. So Robert, without any further ado, I'd love to hear from you. Tell us a bit about your backstory, but most importantly, I want to know what inspires you to do the work that you do today to help people with storytelling.

Robert Kennedy III: 2:31

Well, first of all, Mick, thank you so much for having me on the show. I am thrilled to bits to be here, my friend. So glad to be here. So, what inspires me, and what is my backstory? The backstory is left, right, diagonal, upside down. It's all sorts of stuff, and it would take a long time to go through it. But the short version is, I have always been a communicator in some way, shape, or form. I'm a, I'm a preacher's kid. I my mom told me that I talked fairly early in my life, and there was a portion of my life where I was told that I talked too much, and so I stopped talking. And for a majority of my childhood, I was known as a quiet child. People thought that I was shy and introverted, which I do qualify. I do identify as an introvert, but introversion doesn't necessarily mean shy. It just means how you handle energy, and so extroverts tend to draw energy from people or from being around people. Introverts get drained when they're around people. That doesn't mean we can't be excited or exciting people to be around. So that is a little bit of the backstory of me, but in spite of being quiet, I've always had a knack for sharing stories or speaking in a way that caused people to pay attention or to remember some things. So I had a training company, or I had a company where we developed e-learning, and we we were building courses for organizations. And as a piece of that, I would do technical training for organizations, teaching them how to build their own courses. Now, every time I built a course, or every time we I delivered a course, I would get some version of the same question: Robert, are you a speaker? What other courses do you teach? Tell me a little bit more about public speaking. You're really good at speaking. Tell me a little bit more. I want to speak more. And for a long time, I didn't pay attention to it. But after a while, I kept. I started to ask myself, why do I keep getting the same question? And I arrived at the answer that leaders or people in general, ultimately, they want to influence others and they want to be able to speak to others in a way that causes people to remember and to listen. And a lot of us feel like we don't know how to do that well. And so, upon that realization, I started. To dig a little bit deeper into the world of professional speaking and how to become a better speaker and communicator, and that's a bit of why I do what I do, my friend.

Mick Spiers: 5:09

Yeah, really, really powerful, Robert. And thanks for sharing the first story on the show. That, that is your story.

Robert Kennedy III: 5:14

Yes, sir.

Mick Spiers: 5:15

What brings you to us today? That there's two interesting things already, and I'm going to say both of them to you, and then we'll unpack them one at a time. This misunderstanding between introverts and extroverts, and the second one I'm going to explore in a moment is you come across. I'm going to say it to you right now. You come across as a naturally gifted speaker, so I'm going to ask you about, are people just naturally gifted, or is this, or is this a skill and a craft that they can learn? Let's start with introverts versus extroverts. This is often misunderstood. They'll say, "I'm an introvert, so therefore I'm not good at public speaking." As an example, but I can tell you some of the greatest public speakers I know, Simon Sinek is deeply introverted, and his storytelling is powerful, memorable, and he's got a gift when he when he gets on the stage. So, how do we overcome this misunderstanding about introversion, Robert?

Robert Kennedy III: 6:19

Well, I don't know how we overcome it exactly, other than to be interested enough to find out what it actually is. So the misunderstanding, or the misconception, or the wrong definition of it is that anybody who's an introvert is naturally shy. They don't want to be around people. They don't like talking to people. They'd rather be in a corner somewhere by themselves than than at a party, and some of that may be true, and it also may not be true. As a business owner, one of the items or one of the activities that I didn't naturally like was networking. I did not. So when somebody said, "Hey, come to this networking event." I didn't really want to go because I didn't want to have a lot of conversations at once. Matter of fact, when I did go, I would typically stand by the hors d'oeuvre table and stuff my mouth with with hors d'oeuvre so that I didn't have to speak to many people. And it wasn't so much because that I didn't want to speak to people. It was I felt a little bit awkward. I didn't know what I should say. I didn't really like small talk in that way. And at some point, I decided, okay, I've got to get through this. And so I figured out a strategy that helped me get through it. My strategy was, once I know who's going to be at that event, I would choose five people. I need to have conversations, good conversations with five people. Once my five people are done, I'm out. I'm done. I'm gone. I'm going home. Okay, so I needed to choose who those five people were, and in order to have good conversations with those five people, I needed to find out or create some really good questions that created some really good conversation, rather than the the standard "Hi, how are you?" or "What is it that you do." I need to come up with something better to be memorable, to have a good conversation, have both of us get some value from that, and then I can move on to the next conversation. So I figured out how to navigate that on stage, I know what energy I need to be able to bring, not only so that I'm awake and have fun on stage, but so that the audience resonates with that and has a little bit of fun with it also. And so, you know, that introvert versus extrovert. At the end of all of that, I'm drained, and I don't want to speak to many people for a day or two, but that doesn't mean I can't be engaging and and eloquent and loquacious on command.

Mick Spiers: 8:50

Yeah, and that's where the energy management comes into it, and that's that's the real definition is is what what brings you energy and what drains your energy. That's the real definition between introverts and extroverts. So, yeah, really good. And I'm going to reflect back to you some of the things I'm hearing there. There's there's a question here. I'm an extrovert, so we can probably test some of this with each other. By the way, so at this party, networking event, whatever it is, do you want to have a shallow conversation with 50 people, or do you want to have a deeper, more insightful conversation with five people? And that's a really interesting part. And then what I'm hearing from you, and the way that you went about your preparation for for this, I'm going to say at the heart of it was curiosity, and through asking the right questions, I'm going to say, Robert, you're actually drawing out that other person's story. You're helping them tell their story, and a little tip here that I picked up from one of our

previous guests was: 9:48

you're looking to be interested, not interesting, and and I think this might be a mental block for people that we're going to talk about storytelling more and more. We go, but but people think that to be a storyteller, you have to be interesting. In this kind of context of networking, you're better off being interested than interesting, and that's going to leave a lasting memory with the people that you're with. How does that sit with you?

Robert Kennedy III: 10:17

Well, you know, one of the there's a great book that I read some years ago called "Story Worthy" by a guy named Matthew Dix, and in that book he has a practice that he takes on at the end of every day. At the end of the day, he says, "Okay, what are five experiences that I had? What are five things that happened to me today?" He writes them down, and they can be random. They don't need to be meaningful in in any way. I stopped at the gas station to get some gas. Okay, number one. Okay, I went to the supermarket. My wife sent me to the supermarket to grab some eggs and milk. Okay, now after he writes down those five experiences, draws a line, and on the right side says, "What's the meaning of this, or is there a lesson that I can pull from that?" So the more that you do that, is the more that you become observant of activities or experience or what I call moments in each day. The more that I can be observant of a moment and pull meaning from that moment, is the more that I have stories that I can tell from what are seemingly mundane experiences in the day. The trick or the the challenge for most people is they feel like they've got to have a dramatic or traumatic experience to share something big and groundbreaking and ooh and ah and wow and awe-inspiring, so that if they don't have that, oh, I can't share. It's not interesting enough, right? But if you can pull, if you can get into the practice of capturing the random moments and pulling meaning from those, you've got a bank, you've got a pool that you can pull from on a regular basis that people will resonate with because their their experiences, their simple experiences that the average person has.

Mick Spiers: 12:06

Two interesting things there, Robert. So when when I go about the world, I can't switch this off. This is in my brain always that in everyday life I see leadership lessons or psychology lessons every single day, everything from I got cut off in traffic today, and unpacking it into a leadership and psychology lesson right there about my about my reaction and like everything. What I'm hearing from you is then the next step beyond that is not just the lesson; is to convert it into a story where I could share that lesson with someone else embodied in that story, and it doesn't have to be dramatic. Is the thing that I'm taking away here, and maybe I'm just going to test this with you. Maybe if it's less dramatic, it becomes even more relatable. So the more outlandish a story is, the maybe it doesn't connect with the audience because it's not relatable anymore. So if I told a story about I went on a yacht off the south coast of France and we ran out of caviar, that's not a relatable story. Getting cut off in traffic is a relatable story. It's less dramatic, but it's more relatable. How how does that sit with you?

Robert Kennedy III: 13:18

Let me share something with you. I've got a framework that I share with people when they tell me that they don't have a story. I've got a framework called Moment, Meaning, and Message. Any moment that you have, what is the meaning from that moment, and then what's the message that people can grab from that? Now, that framework is a cheat code to help you with creating stories at the beginning of a speech or or seminar or whenever you need to use it. So some people have a little bit of trouble with pulling or extracting the meaning from a moment. So our company we've developed a tool, a 3M story builder that allows you to put the information in, and AI will help you with the meaning and the message and craft a story. So, as a matter of fact, I'm gonna pull it up on screen right now, and I'm not gonna share my screen because this is audio. But I'm gonna use your example just now. You said "I got cut in, cut off in traffic" and I got upset. Cool. I put that moment in. Here's the meaning that the AI has given to me right now. When someone cuts us off in traffic, we get angry at a stranger. We'll never meet again. But at work, we do the same thing with people we actually have to lead. We react to the action without knowing anything about the person's day, pressure, or situation. Most conflict starts with assuming the worst about someone's intent when we don't have the full picture. That's a suggested. I could put my own meaning into that. Okay. Now I've confirmed that meaning. What is the message that I'm going to pull out of that, so it gives me this tool that we use. Gives me two options. Option A is stop judging the move without knowing the driver, meaning number one, or message number one. Option two is you can't lead people you've already convicted without a trial. That's message number two.

Mick Spiers: 14:56

Oh, that hit hard. Okay, keep going.

Robert Kennedy III: 14:59

I'm going to option number two. So now, what it's done is it's taken that moment, that random moment. It's developed a meaning and it's given me a message. And now it's crafted the story. Check this out. Somebody cut me off on my way here today. Just blew right through the lane change like I didn't exist. And I'll be honest, I had a full conversation with that person in my head. None of it was kind. I decided exactly who they were, what kind of human being they must be, all of it in less than four seconds. Never met them before. We'll never see them again, and I'd already handed down a verdict. Here's what bothers me, though. I've watched leaders do that exact thing with people on their own teams. Someone misses a deadline. Someone pushes back in a meeting. Someone goes quiet, and before there's a single conversation, the story's already written. We react to the action and skip straight past the person, the pressure, and the context that we don't actually have. You can't lead people you've already convicted without a trial.

Mick Spiers: 15:51

I don't know what to say. I'm speechless. That is just wow. That's the exact message, right? So, so that's what I mean by that's what I'm I'm I'm observing human behavior all the time, and I'm picking up this. But your ability with your tool there to craft that into something that could be a leadership moment in a meeting, it could be you could use that in so many different ways. Very powerful, sir okay,

Robert Kennedy III: 16:15

Absolutely, yeah, yeah, and I'm glad to share this with your audience at the end in your show notes. We can we can share how they can access something like this because having something like this is it helps you to see okay what are how can I craft something powerful and memorable out of what seem to be the regular moments even if we used your caviar story I went to Cabo and we were sitting on the beach, and there was no caviar. I could pull a meaning and a message.

Mick Spiers: 16:46

Can you believe it? Can you believe that?

Robert Kennedy III: 16:49

Yeah, I can pull a meaning and a message out of that. And what happens is, who does it resonate with? Because you're going to have different stories that resonate with different groups of people. It depends on who I'm talking to. A caviar story might resonate with somebody that is used to eating caviar, or the meaning and the message that I pull from it might still resonate with somebody who's not used to caviar, but they can see the connection between what our expected thoughts about luxury in our lives are.

Mick Spiers: 17:22

Yeah, very good. Okay, all right, excellent. Now you're you're giving us powerful things already, Robert. I want to come. I want to come back to the second question that I was asking, which is I'm going to say it to you again. You do come across as a naturally gifted speaker, and there are going to be people that it actually makes it daunting for them. They go,"Oh, that Robert, that RK three guy, he he's got this stage presence. He's he's a natural. Is it a natural gift, or is it something that we can build as a craft?

Robert Kennedy III: 17:54

I believe it's like many other things. I'm not a naturally gifted basketball player, right? I'm not a naturally gifted dribbler. Could I work on it enough to get to the point where I could be more than competent, but pretty pretty good at it? Absolutely, absolutely. There's somebody else that may not have to work as hard as me, but we can both end up at a similar level. I just may have to put in a little bit more work. It's the same thing with public speaking. It's the same thing with presentation communication. There are some people that, for one reason or another, have a natural leaning towards it, a natural gifting towards it. I am one of three brothers, and my dad was, or is-he's still alive. My dad is a was a preacher, and so we've gotten some of that from our dad. Now, of the three of us, I'm the only one who's a public speaker. Does that mean my brothers didn't get that talent? No, they can have some level of it, or they've gotten some of it in some way, shape, or form because they were exposed to similar things as I was. I've just chosen to pursue it further, and therefore practiced some skills more than they have, so that I show up a little bit differently than they do. So,

bottom line is: 19:18

yes, it's a teachable skill. You can improve at it. There are certain elements that will help you to improve. Understanding frameworks is one. Understanding your audience is is another. Understanding stages and where you are, proximity and presence, those are elements of this, and those can be practiced.

Mick Spiers: 19:39

Okay. All right. Very good. That gives us some confidence. If you're listening to this show now and and you're sitting there thinking you're either naturally gifted or not, there's probably a certain element of truth in that, but it can be a learnt and built skill. I'm going to put it to RK three right now and say, Robert, that even with you as a naturally gifted speaker, I bet. If we pulled up right now your show reel and looked at speeches from when you started compared to where you are today, I bet you there's a stark difference. So even if you started with a really good starting point, you've still built your muscle over time. I guarantee it. All right. So, but by putting in the work, okay, really good. Now I'm going to go. I'm going to pivot now to a question that's adjacent to this, and this is this is, and the language is really important here. This is not going to be about skill now. This is going to be about something else. It's going to be about identity. If we are, if we poll the audience right now and we say, ask them about storytelling, I guarantee you, 50 plus percent of people are going to say, "I'm just not a storyteller. Now, hear the language there. They didn't say,"I'm not good at storytelling, which is a skill. I'm not a storyteller. They're telling themselves in their mind the identity, the story that they're telling themselves about themselves in their own mind is I'm not a storyteller, which is an identity that they become, and therefore they don't even start. How do we get past this limiting belief that I'm not a storyteller?

Robert Kennedy III: 21:15

So Don Miguel Ruiz has this great book called "The Four Agreements" and in that book, he talks about the fact that everything in life happens by agreement. Even the fact that you respond to your name. So if I say Mick, doesn't matter if I'm talking to you. If you're walking down the street and somebody says Mick, you turn around because you think that they're talking to you. You've created an implicit agreement with the world that you are going to respond to that thing, right? And because you've created that agreement, it becomes your identity. Can I change that at some point? Yes, I can. So if one day you came into the room with me and I said, "Hey, Mick, how you doing?" And you stopped, you didn't pay attention to me. you ignored me. I am saying, "What's going on with you, Mick? Mick, what's going on, Mick? Hey, Mick!" And you ignore me. You continue to ignore me. After a little while, you realize it's just myself and you in the room, and you say, "Hey, no, my name's not Mick anymore. I changed my name to Trevor a few days ago." So what you've done is you have broken the agreement that we've created socially, right? But here's the thing, you can break that agreement. You can make the choice to break that agreement. You can make the choice to choose a different identity, and most of us don't choose a different identity because there is some fear around it. We fear that people will ask us why did we break the agreement or why did we change the agreement. We fear that if that new identity doesn't work out, people are going to make fun of us or criticize us, and so we'd rather stay with the with the comfortable thing that we know than the uncomfortable thing that we don't know. So, can I switch? Can I take the change the identity or change from becoming a what I what I would say a not a storyteller into a better storyteller, yeah, that starts with agreeing or choosing to change your identity and having the courage to do so.

Mick Spiers: 23:29

Very good, thanks, Robert. You you get to write that story, you get to hold that pen, and you get to decide what you say. And you can translate that not just into storytelling; it could be anything. It's like, and it's the it's either I am or it's I'm the kind of person who, and you get to decide how to finish those sentences. So I am a runner, I am an athlete, or I'm the kind of person who chooses more often than not chooses healthy choices when I eat out at restaurants. That's all part of your the the story that you're writing the contract the agreement that you're writing in your own head and what you what you live by and you get to decide no one else gets to decide that you get to decide that it's it's really powerful let's unpack the fear a little bit more this one's not strictly just about storytelling this is just about public speaking in general we know it's one of the biggest fears in life. It's like I think it's top three fear for many people. I've never had this fear, to be clear, but I know that it's there. Some people would prefer to walk across a football field of of broken glass, Robert, than be put on a stage. How do they take the first step if if they're really frozen by that fear?

Robert Kennedy III: 24:46

Yeah, it's said that Jerry Seinfeld, the comedian, said that at a funeral, most people would rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy.

Mick Spiers: 24:54

Okay, there you go.

Robert Kennedy III: 24:55

Yeah. So you know, it's like anything else. It. Ultimately, comes down to decision and also the story that you tell yourself. I have clients that come to me for public speaking coaching, and one of the questions they ask me, they say, "Oh my gosh, Robert, one of the reasons I don't want to speak is because I get so nervous. My hands start to sweat, I start to shake, I feel the butterflies. How do I get rid of the butterflies?" My response is "Listen, our job isn't to get rid of the butterflies, it's to get them to fly in formation." Here's what happens scientifically, the same chemicals internally that cause nervousness or fear are the same chemicals that cause excitement. It depends on the messaging what I tell my brain. So, as long as I've been speaking, every time I get up to speak or know that I need to speak before I hit the stage, I feel the butterflies inside of me. I feel the wigglies. I feel this energy that begins to pulse through me. Over time, what I've done is I've told myself that that energy is my body getting ready to do something awesome and amazing. So instead of repeating the story to myself backstage, instead of saying, "Oh my gosh, I'm so nervous." "Oh my gosh, I'm so nervous." "Oh my gosh, I'm so nervous." What I start to do is I start to jump around, I start to shadowbox, I start to I start to move in a way that says, "Oh yeah, I'm getting ready." In the same way that a footballer coming onto the pitch jumps up and down, or you're watching a boxing match, right, and you see them jumping up and down and getting ready to come out, they are using, they're channeling the same secretion of chemicals. They're channeling the same thing into a mental state that is useful for them in that circumstance. So each of us can do that. It just depends on what's the story that we want to repeat to ourselves.

Mick Spiers: 26:52

Yeah, really good. I've not thought about this in this way before, so I'm going to share my personal reflection on this. And typically, I've never been judgmental of people that get nervous. I just know it's a it's a normal thing, but I've got to say that before I get on stage, there are butterflies, but it's it's excitement. I just never thought it was nerves. I just thought, oh, this is cool. This is really cool, and I kind of put myself out there, knowing that I know if I'm about to tell a joke as part of the presentation, that the joke might land flat and all that. I kind of I'm okay to put myself out there, and I've always had that butterfly feeling as just a signal that I'm excited and that this matters. I'm going to enjoy this, not that I'm petrified, but what I'm hearing from you is the people that get nervous. They get the butterflies, and and they interpret it as I'm going to crash and burn here. I'm going to look silly. I'm going to I'm going to lose face. I'm going to look funny in front of my friends and colleagues. Yeah, interesting. Okay. All right. Next question, and we potentially should have started with this, but it doesn't matter. We can ask this anyway. Why do stories matter? Why do stories matter, and why do they work? What's the secret source here?

Robert Kennedy III: 28:13

Wow. So stories press play on a video in your brain, or in the audience's brain, if I give you information, if I give you data, you will not get the same response. Our brains are always seeking to close the loop. Our brains are always seeking patterns and connections. And so, if I give you information, and the brain looks for that pattern, and it doesn't find anything. Then it shuts down, or it asks the question, and then if it doesn't appear, the answer doesn't appear. It moves on to something else. If I came to your house and I said to you,"Hey Mick, there's somebody in your driveway." What is your next question to me?

Mick Spiers: 28:59

Why? What? What are they doing there?

Robert Kennedy III: 29:02

Exactly. Why? Your brain is immediately saying, "Let's create a connection. Let's create a connection." Okay.

Mick Spiers: 29:09

Open loop. There's an open loop already. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah. Good.

Robert Kennedy III: 29:14

So you say,"Why? What are they doing? And I say, "Oh, they're standing behind your car." Your next question is?

Mick Spiers: 29:20

"What's their intentions?

Robert Kennedy III: 29:22

Yeah, what are they doing? Then you say to me, "Hey, oh, okay, they're standing behind your car and they've got a camera and they're taking pictures of your license plate."

Mick Spiers: 29:31

It's the guy that cut me off in traffic. That's who it is.

Robert Kennedy III: 29:34

Exactly right. So I've given you now a full. If I came to you initially and said, "Hey, Mick, there's a man standing outside. He's standing behind your car, and he's taking pictures of your license plate." Immediately, here's what happens. Your mind starts to create this video, this picture, and says, and the curiosity says, "Okay, why is somebody standing outside?" You've you've got this picture in your head of what they're doing and what they're what they're up to. In the same way, if I'm a speaker on stage and I come up to you, I enter the stage, and I say, "Gas is expensive." You would say,"Okay, yes, yes, it is." And the story would end there. But if I stood on stage and I said, "You know, when I was a child, I used to go to the gas station with my dad, and I remember him taking the gas handle out and putting putting it into the to the gas tank, and I remember looking at the tank at the numbers as they would go up and down." And at that point, gas was 25 cents per gallon. That was 20 years ago. Here's what just happened. Your mind was transported 20 years back. You see this guy now on stage with a gray beard, but I told you when I was a kid. So now you're seeing me and you're imagining me as a little bit younger. You're imagining my dad. You're imagining him take the gas handle out of the the the pump and putting it into the car. You're seeing the numbers spinning on the gas dial, and you're seeing the sign that says it was 25 cents per gallon. So what I've done there is I've essentially hijacked your brain for for just a moment. I've gotten your brain to a place. I've transported you from where you are to where I was, and now your brain is not just in that place, but your brain is saying,"Hey, wait a minute. Let me search through my own database of experiences. Is there something that I've experienced that is similar to that? Is there something that I experienced that made me that reminds me of that? Did I like it? Did I not like it? Was it hurtful for me? Do I not want to experience again, or do I desire that thing? And when I can do that with someone, when I can transport them to a place where their brain is cycling through experiences, if they have an experience that, or they land on experience that they like or is some way interesting to them, now it begins to build trust with the next person because you've had that experience, I've had that experience. Oh my gosh, we're humans together. We're a little bit like each other. So that's the power of story.

Mick Spiers: 32:08

It's really good. Then becomes memorable. I'm now going to remember that story at least for the rest of this day. But probably probably tell it to my wife later and and talk her through this. Right. So it's it's also then memorable. It's going to stick. Whereas if you told me statistics about gas prices, or even statistics about how many people's cars get stolen out the front of the house, I'm potentially not going to remember it. The three things that happened when you're talking, the visualization was almost identical to what you said in the replay, even to the point of when I visualized it, I was visualizing it at the gas station or service station that's just around the corner from my house. Like that's how that's how clear the visual was. It wasn't some vague. It was almost like a dream. It was 4k HD visualization of everything that you were saying, and it was identical to what you said. The second one I'm going to tell you, particularly when you said about, "Hey Mick, there's a there's a guy out the front of your house and he's taking a picture of your car." I had an emotional reaction, even though it's not real, it's not happening. You were just telling a story. I had an emotional reaction to that, and then the third is the connection. And I'm going to use connection in two ways. One, yes, I was connecting the dots, going, I wonder where this story is going. But two, now I feel more connected to you, Robert, because we've got this shared experience.

Robert Kennedy III: 33:36

Absolutely, power of story, my friend.

Mick Spiers: 33:40

Very good. Okay, now, in your work, you talk about a concept of a signature story. What does a signature story mean? What does that mean?

Robert Kennedy III: 33:51

In its simplest form, it's a story. It's like your own signature. It's something that can be associated with you over time. If I say Mick, somebody says,"Hey, Mick's coming to speak. Oh yeah, Mick's probably going to talk about this. Mick's got a signature story, so somebody might say, "Okay, well, why would I want a signature story, or why would I want to tell the same story over and over and over again?" Well, for the same reason that somebody would watch Star Wars 50 times.

Mick Spiers: 34:24

I've watched it more than 50 times. Guilty is charged. Yeah. Okay. Right.

Robert Kennedy III: 34:29

Well so, so I'll ask you, why have you watched it so much?

Mick Spiers: 34:32

I'm going to tell you something interesting. Here is it's the very first movie I ever saw at the movies, and it brings me back to my childhood, Star Wars and the storytelling is incredible, and we spoke about leadership lessons. I watch Star Wars now as a 52-year-old adult and watch the leadership thread through it. Right, so so it's and it's very powerful, and it's got everything around it. The journey, the hero's journey. All of it, the emotional. I completely invest myself every time I put, particularly Star Wars Episode Four, because that was the one. Every time I watch it, I completely invest myself in the story.

Robert Kennedy III: 35:13

Yeah, and every time you watch it, you invest yourself in it, and there is emotion that happens, and you know what the emotion is going to be, and you liked it, you enjoyed the emotion, and so okay. If there's nothing else happening in my day, if everything else went wrong in my day, I know that I can create this motion, I can create this pleasure, I can create this space by going back to that story, and that story, as you just mentioned brings you back, transports you back to your childhood to the very first time that you watch it. I mean, this was a movie that came out in the 80s. It came out in the 19, and so now 2000, you know, the 21st century. You're literally time traveling. You're taking yourselves back about 40 years to watch this film, or when you watch it, it it takes you back about 40 years. So a signature story does that same thing. I have a story that I can tell, and it creates. It's it's got a lesson. It's got something that I can repeat multiple times, and I can adapt it to different situations. But it's a story that I can share that people enjoy that creates a connection with them, no matter what the audience is or what type of audience is. Right? Of course, I'm going to tweak it a little bit. I'm going to change the length of it. I'm going to point out or highlight some things based on who the audience is. But it's a story that I know backwards and forwards. I will not stumble with it. I will be excited every time I tell it, and every time I tell it, it's going to be meaningful to people.

Mick Spiers: 36:57

Yeah, really good. Okay, so the key question now

is: 37:01

People listening to the show going, "Yeah, I need one of these." How does someone find their signature story?

Robert Kennedy III: 37:09

Well, there are a lot of different processes that you you walk through. I think you start with, "Okay, what is the action that I want people to take. What is the one thing that I want people to know, remember, or do every time they hear me speak?" Okay. Once I've got that action, once I've got that item, what is a story that I can tell that connects to that item? Is there something personal that has happened? Something transformational? Is there a pivotal moment in my life that connects to that idea or that experience or that explanation? If I can do those two things, lean into that pivotal moment as well as figure out what I want people to know, what I want them to experience, what I want them to do, then I can I can begin to pull pull a signature story from that, and it doesn't have to be a big dramatic moment. There's a story that I share about learning to ride my bicycle at the age of eight that I just thought it was just a random story. I didn't really even share it until one day I was telling it to my mastermind group, and after I finished telling it, they stopped me and they said, "Why haven't you ever told us that story before?" I said, "It was just random story. I learned to ride my bike at eight. I rode down a hill." They said, "Well, no. Let's stop and break that down." There are so many different business lessons in that story, and we walked through it, and we broke it down. And listen, I started telling that story, and I started tell it over and over. And every time I told it, I subtracted a little, I added a little, I tweaked a little, I turned it upside down, and so it just became this this organic, this great experience that the audience felt every time I was I was in front of a microphone. So yeah, grab yourself a signature story from a pivotal experience in your life, or it may just be an experience that you didn't think was a big deal, but somebody else found meaning in it.

Mick Spiers: 39:17

Yeah, okay. All right. One more question related to that, then, and I was just thinking about stories that I tell, and some of them are personal, some of them are, and some of them are. I'm going to call it third-party stories, right? So I I tell a story about a couple that have been married for 50 years, and it's a bread breaking story, and there's there's a big message and meaning at the end of it. But that's not me. That's arm's length remove. It's some other couple that this one is literally a made up story, but it's got a deep meaning, and the way I tell it is very relatable, etc. What is better? Is it better to share the personal? Story, or is it okay if you're uncomfortable with a personal story to externalize it and say there was this couple and they were married for 50 years and it's and it's someone else?

Robert Kennedy III: 40:11

Yeah. So relatability and connectivity are not always the same, right? And it really depends on what you want. There's nothing wrong with sharing a story about another couple. I have a friend of mine who is a motivational speaker, and he constantly tells stories about lions and eagles and how the eagle flies high and and what lions as the king of the jungle do. And he's using external stories, right, to create relatability to experience because he's got a lesson at the end of it, and ultimately people resonate with a lesson. Those stories, though, don't build trust. They establish you as a good storyteller. They don't establish you as a good person. If I tell a story about me, then people see see a bit of my life and why I'm passionate about certain things, why I speak a certain way, what have navigated in my life, and if I've navigated it, I am possibly the person that can give them the steps to navigate their challenge as well. And they trust me. I can share somebody else's story and how they navigated it, but I don't know that you really know. I don't trust that you know you're you're using book knowledge. But if I'm sharing with you experiential knowledge, now I can say, oh yeah, I trust this person to help me navigate this thing, and maybe because they're sharing their story with me, I can be a little bit more vulnerable with them about what's happening in my space.

Mick Spiers: 41:47

Yeah, really good. So, so I'm hearing if I if I make sure I get the right message, I'm hearing it's okay to use these externalized third party stories. That there's a moment in time for that. The missing ingredient there is when we get to the personal story, we're going to build some trust, some credibility. We're going to show that we're human and therefore approachable. And I'm a little bit, ah, oh, that Mick, he told that story about, or that Robert, he told that story about when he was eight years old riding his bike. That that was like me when I was eight years. He's like me. I like Robert. I like Robert. He's like me. Okay. All right. Cool. Right. Really good. I want to ask you some rapid fire questions before we before we wrap up. Just you know, we're such an expert in the field. I don't want to miss this opportunity. What's the biggest mistake that people make in storytelling?

Robert Kennedy III: 42:38

The first answer is not telling them, not telling them at all. That's the first answer. The biggest mistake that people make is not having a framework that they can use to take people on a journey. They just rattle off information and think it's a story. I'll leave it at that.

Mick Spiers: 42:56

Okay. All right. Very good. Who's your favorite storyteller?

Robert Kennedy III: 43:00

Wow. I don't know that I have a favorite storyteller. I like reading a lot of different books. I love reading books by Mark Batterson, who's a Christian author. I love reading, watching movies. I love watching superhero movies. I'm I'm addicted to superhero movies, and so there are a lot of great storytellers there. I don't know that I have a singular storyteller like a Dr. Seuss or Aesop that I can point to.

Mick Spiers: 43:28

Okay, all right. Very good. And finally, like, there's a lot of people out there that give public speaking or storytelling advice. What's the worst advice you've ever heard?

Robert Kennedy III: 43:40

The worst advice. Oh, here's the well. Here it is. If you're nervous, just imagine everybody naked in the audience.

Mick Spiers: 43:46

What the heck is that one? I've never done that one, by the way. I've always scratched my head. Okay.

Robert Kennedy III: 43:50

Yeah.

Mick Spiers: 43:52

All right, cool. All right. Very good. Okay. So I'm going to wrap us up a little bit now and come to our rapid round, our our actual last four four questions that we ask all of our guests. So, so Robert, you've shared so many things with us today that that stories do matter. This is what makes things memorable because it takes people on a journey. That that powerful visualization, like I was saying before, in in 4k high definition visualization of that story, you can't help but do it. Like if someone says to you, "Don't think of an elephant, you can't help but think of an elephant." And you can and you see it in in full HD color. It's it's just really powerful. The connection that that we don't like these open loops, so that we want to go on the we want to go on the journey, and the emotion-the emotion that it unpacks-means that that story is going to land with the person, but they're going to remember it for far longer if you just gave them a a bunch of statistics that they're going to forget two minutes later. That you can overcome. This kind of, I'm going to call it mental block, that you're not a storyteller. By rewriting your story, you get to tell the story about who you are. You can rewrite that. I'm not a storyteller story into I'm working on my storytelling, and and that I'm the type of person who tries to tell stories and tries to be engaging, and so you can rewrite that story. That you can turn anything into a story, any moment in your life, and relatable moments probably make better stories because they're relatable, and people are going to connect to it. And this tool that that Robert is going to share with us, and we'll put it in the show notes to be able to convert it using moment, meaning, and message. Take any moment, look at the meaning, and then convert it into a message. And I'm excited to use your tool. But just even if you don't use the tool, if you do that on a scrap of paper, what was the moment? What was the meaning? What was the message? You can lean into this, the signature story. Start looking for this signature story about something that it was meaningful to you. I'm going to say meaningful and personal now. Listening to to Robert, that you can convert into stories that you can share share with others. All right, Robert, thank you so much. I want to take us now to our rapid round. These are the same four questions we ask all of. I guess. So, what's the one thing that you know now, RK three, that you wish you knew when you were 20?

Robert Kennedy III: 46:33

It's okay to fail.

Mick Spiers: 46:35

Yeah, we all need to hear that sometimes. Yeah, very good. Okay, all right, very powerful. What's your favorite book?

Robert Kennedy III: 46:43

Wow, I've got several of those, but I'll say this one "Secrets of a Millionaire Mind" is my favorite book simply because it changed how I thought about life and money, and it was one of the first personal development books that my dad gave to me.

Mick Spiers: 47:01

Ah, nice. Well, it's a personal connection there as well. Yeah, okay.

Robert Kennedy III: 47:05

My Christian friends are probably mad that I didn't say the Bible, but yes.

Mick Spiers: 47:09

Okay. And what's your favorite quote?

Robert Kennedy III: 47:13

Martin Luther King, "Faith is taking the first step, even when you can't see the entire staircase."

Mick Spiers: 47:20

That sounds like someone stepping into the breach of never being a storyteller and telling their first story. How does that sound?

Robert Kennedy III: 47:27

I love it. Yes.

Mick Spiers: 47:28

Oh, very good. Okay, and finally, there's going to be people that absolutely want to unlock this. They want to unlock the power of storytelling, and they want some help. How do people find you, Robert, so they can take more advantage of your work.

Robert Kennedy III: 47:43

Easiest way go to robertkennedyIII.me. RobertKennedy, the number alphanumeric three dot me.

Mick Spiers: 47:50

All right, brilliant, Robert. I've thoroughly enjoyed this. I've personally taken some lessons that I'll apply going forward, and I know that the audience has as well. So thank you so much for your gift of your wisdom and your experience and your very practical tips on how we can all unlock the power of storytelling. Thank you so much.

Robert Kennedy III: 48:12

Thanks, mate. My pleasure.

Mick Spiers: 48:15

What a wonderful conversation with Robert Kennedy III. The idea that really stayed with me is that storytelling is not about performance, it's not about theatrics, and it's not about becoming someone you are not. Storytelling is about meaning. It is the bridge between information and understanding. It is the bridge between facts and feelings. It is the bridge between what happened and why it matters, and as leaders, that bridge matters because people do not only need to know what we are doing; they need to understand why it matters. They need to see where they fit. They need to feel connected to the purpose, the direction, and the human reality behind the work, that is why Robert's framework of moment, meaning, and message is so practical. Start with the moment. What happened? What was the situation? Then look for the meaning. What did you learn? What changed? What did it reveal? Then find the message. How could this help someone else see something more clearly, make a better choice, or feel less alone? That is such a powerful discipline for leaders, and I love that it removes the pressure to have some grand dramatic life story. We do not need to wait for a mountain top moment. We can start with ordinary moments and learn to notice what they have to teach us. Could be a moment in a meeting. A mistake we made, a conversation with a customer, a lesson from our children, a sporting experience, a time when we got it wrong, a time when someone else believed in us, a time when we had to choose courage over comfort. These are the moments that make us human, and when we share them with care, they help other people connect with us. That does not mean making every conversation about ourselves. This is not about oversharing or hijacking the room. The point of a leadership story is not to make ourselves the hero, the point is to serve the listener. What do they need to understand? What do they need to feel? What do they need to believe is possible? What action do we want to invite them into? I also appreciate Robert's reminder that we are already telling stories, whether we realize it or not. We tell stories about our teams. We tell stories about change. We tell stories about customers. We tell stories about success and failure, and we tell stories about ourselves. And sometimes the most important story we need to change is the one in our own mind, the story that says I'm not a storyteller, or I'm not confident, or I don't have anything useful to say, or my experience is just not interesting enough. These stories shape how we show up. They shape what we try, they shape what we avoid, and they shape the impact we have. So

here is my invitation to you: 51:47

this week, start building your story bank. At the end of each day, choose one moment and ask,"What happened? What did it mean? What message could it carry? If you do that consistently over time, you will build a library of stories that can help you connect, teach, inspire, challenge, and lead. Because leadership communication is not about saying more; it is about helping people see more. Thank you for joining me on this episode of The Leadership Project. If this conversation resonated with you, please share it with someone who has an important message to share, but may not yet see themselves as a storyteller. And join us next time for a special solo cast where I bring together the threads from this month's conversations with Susan Drumm, Brad Semmens, Dre Baldwin, and Robert Kennedy III, we will explore what it means to move from autopilot to intention, to notice the playlist running inside us, choose the stance that serves the room, live by the standards that carry us through the third day, and tell the stories that create the meaning and movement. Until then, remember, everyone deserves to feel seen, heard, valued, and that they belong. You've been listening to the leadership project. If today sparked an insight, don't keep it to yourself. Share it with one other person who would benefit from listening to the show. A huge thank you to Gerald Calibo for his tireless work editing every episode, and to my amazing wife Sei, who does all the heavy lifting in the background to make this show possible. None of this happens without them. Around here, we believe leadership is a practice, not a position. That people should feel seen, heard, valued, and that they matter. That the best leaders trade ego for empathy, certainty for curiosity, and control for trust. If that resonates with you, please subscribe on YouTube and on your favorite podcast app. And if you want more, follow me on LinkedIn and explore our archives for conversations that move you from knowing to doing. Until next time, lead with curiosity, courage, and care.